Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#11

Post by detaro » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

invalidname wrote: post #10

b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

Right. The problem is that those guys are pretty hard to convince with facts. I took my 3rd shot because otherwise this would go in the garbage. In that sense it does increase my protection and reduces the overall burden on the system so it does help.

"those guys are pretty hard to convince" about giving supply to unvaccinated populations is a fairly shitty take while sitting in one of the short list of countries that has had enough vaccine to supply everyone who wants one.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#12

Post by swader999 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:02 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #7

occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

And, for a selfish western pitch: reduce the chance that bad new variants develop.

How will these vaccines that don't produce immunity lead to less severe variants? If they mute severity of illness they will lead to more severe variants. This is basic.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#13

Post by hef19898 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

But developing countries pay less, so BionTech and Pfizer will have less profits. As cool as having a company like Biontech, run by immigrants, founded in Germany they always rubbed me the wrong way in terms of PR and business conduct since the start of the pandemic. With huge support from German media and politics. The continued dissing of Astrazeneca is just one example, the push for booster shots is another.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#14

Post by raesene9 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

I'd agree in the ideal world that's exactly what should happen, however in reality there are a load of unadministered doses in the US (https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1437617018782449668?s=2...) which will go to waste if not used, so it would seem to make sense to use those for boosters where they're available.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#15

Post by swader999 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:05 AM UTC

stkdump wrote: post #8

I can already see this backfiring later when that assessment changes due to more information or increased supply, like it did with the mask messaging.

It's a long read but shows what you allude to: https://www.juliusruechel.com/2021/09/the-snake-oil-salesmen...

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#16

Post by newaccount2021 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

why are you baking in the assumption that boosters are needed?

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#17

Post by dtech » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:07 AM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #12

skrebbel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, for a selfish western pitch: reduce the chance that bad new variants develop.

How will these vaccines that don't produce immunity lead to less severe variants? If they mute severity of illness they will lead to more severe variants. This is basic.

They do provide immunity in 95% (conservative) of cases, so it massively reduces the population that mutations can happen in.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#18

Post by mandmandam » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:07 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

I really don't understand the vaccines for all push:

A - The benefit for young people seems to be outweighed by the risk, for a given time period. The risk of mortality from vaccine induced clots in under 40s is twice the risk of death from Covid [0] (post relates to AZ but other vaccines has similar clot risks). The risk of hospitalisation from myocarditis is a multiple of the risk of hospitalisation from Corona, especially in young males [1] who have a four to six times risk. That alone would be enough to put serious doubt into the vaccines for all narrative, but there's also rarer and weirder confirmed side effects like Bell's Palsy and Guillain-Barre Syndrome.

B - The continued dramatic overlooking of natural immunity, which seems to be 6 or 7 times more effective than vaccines alone. Misinformation on this subject from vested interests and uncritical / complicit media has been rife [2].

C - Better, safer, more effective and more traditional vaccines are coming, ie, Novavax.

As a young male with no comorbidities and natural immunity, WHY in God's name would I risk taking an mRNA vaccine that has _far_ higher odds of sending me to hospital or killing me than it has of protecting me from the same by lowering Corona reinfection risk?

[0] - https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.html [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r... [2] - https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#19

Post by ajross » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:08 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #6

This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed. Instead, as per article, it is about how these shots will save more lives, if administered to people without access to first shots! If vaccine doses were unlimited worldwide, 3rd shots (according to article logic) would by recommended for all.

> This title is misleading. It isn't about them not being needed.

It also implies a level of consensus that doesn't exist. "Vaccine experts", as a whole, don't hold this opinion. This is about two specific dissenters in the FDA.

It's not a completely cut and dry subject. There are tradeoffs with all such decisions, such as the value of a booster in one individual vs. a first injection to another in a different part of the world, etc... It's not an unreasonable position.

But it's not a consensus position either. The typical recommendation seems to be that boosters are valuable.

Re: Vaccine experts: Covid-19 booster shots aren't needed now

#20

Post by swader999 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 10:08 AM UTC

raesene9 wrote: post #14

occz wrote: post #5

I think this is the correct analysis - the focus should be to provide vaccines to the rest of the worlds nations that have not yet gotten widespread access to vaccines. This is likely to cause the greatest benefit in the form of fewer global deaths, and reduced global spread of the disease.

I'd agree in the ideal world that's exactly what should happen, however in reality there are a load of unadministered doses in the US ( https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1437617018782449668?s=2... ) which will go to waste if not used, so it would seem to make sense to use those for boosters where they're available.

By the time these are distributed the virus will have drifted and these legacy doses likely not as effective with the new strains.