Live data from Hacker News

Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

im1776.com

41–50 of 65 posts

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#41
post #9

I genuinely like Curtis' work, and Bitter Lake is peppered with interesting stuff and fantastic stock footage. But the dialogue in his recent films has been predictable: *But the old systems had never gone away. And then one person realised there was a vacuum at the heart of it all. But they had forgotten to program the computers with the one thing that really mattered. And then...." etc. I honestly can't tell if it'…

Yes, his work often does sound like a parody similar to SNL doing the stereotypical long-haired California 20-ish dude who's too much into psychedelics: "Hey maaaaan, listen maaaan, it's all connected, maaaan, you gotta wake up, maaaan! The people running the show have never changed, maaan!"

That's what it is, basically, just dressed up in a faux academic presentation. Also it's not too far removed from the "Jews are running the world from the shadows" narrative of the far right.

Not everything is wrong in his movies, but he only ever scratches a very very thin layer off the surface because he knows if he went deep into a certain topic his movies would be far less compelling and much more boring.

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#42
post #3

Overall it's an interesting review, but saying that 99% of Afghanis want Sharia Law and citing an unsourced claim in a blog post is poor writing and undermines the author's credibility, which is unfortunate. Edit: The cited blog actually does cite a research poll, my mistake! https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-the-taliban-won-sharia-is-dem...

a bigger problem is what “they support sharia law” actually means. any two supporters of any broad political signifier in the US often mean totally different things

https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/in-the-news/2019/02/25/shar...

I think the better analogy is what a Fox News viewer thinks a word like "liberal", "BLM" or whatever buzzword or label represents and what the people who use it to describe themselves mean by it. That broadens and distorts further than the real difference between two people within a community or faith.

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#43
>supposed link between the insularity of American foreign policy in the 1930s and the worldwide chaos of 1945 gave credence to the view that the elixir of liberty could not be contained within the borders of the country alone. It had to be given to others so America might be protected from the threat of external tyranny.

That was the official story.

The unofficial story was than an emerging empire was flexing its muscles and extending its reach, as it had already done e.g. in the Phillipines, and its military and industry wanted wanted more of the global pie (though, for historical reasons, it would have to do it in a post-colonial world, and in a post-colonial manner - Banana Republics, proxy wars, and support for every dictatorship under the sun, all in the name of giving this "elixir of liberty").

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#45
post #22

My only complaint about Curtis is that some of the music samples he uses over and over again are phenomenally bad and distracting to the viewer. The trope of using discordant, clashing notes is obviously retro, but its day has come and gone. It's never been clear to me as to why he would want to turn his audience away, but the only thing I can come up with is that it's generational, as many of these bad sound clips c…

His latest work certainly uses a lot of This Mortal Coil and other early 4AD bands.

I should clarify, that aside from the discordant samples he uses, his soundtrack selections are incredible and worth checking out. I think it's possible I'm just ever so slightly on the spectrum and that biases my experience of Curtis.

In other words, I have a weird susceptibility to loud music that hits certain notes. I suspect most people don't even notice how disturbing some of the music samples he uses can be to some people, so this is probably on me. It's likely Curtis isn't even aware of it.

I've had a strange reaction to certain sounds, colors, and textures all my life, so I'm probably projecting my preferences on to Curtis. I really enjoy the films by Curtis, but I have trouble watching them because the sound is so triggering to me.

Those samples he commonly uses, where it sounds like high pitched squeals (violin?) and overdriven metal on metal tones (synth or tube amp with reverb) drive me crazy. It's literally painful for me to listen to it.

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#46
post #24

Curtis should really scratch a certain part of me, the part that listens to numbers stations and stays up at night reading old declassified cold war papers etc., But I just can't believe anything he says. The ratio of confidence to lack of citations is just alarming. I enjoyed and somewhat agreed with the main thesis of hypernormalisation but it just seemed impossible to verify. It doesn't help that a lot of his work…

you sound like someone who would say they cant read Shakespeare because he writes fiction so he has nothing to say about the human condition.

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#48
post #2

> Curtis draws a conclusion without a narrative trajectory; he leaves multifarious discordant happenings to interplay... I think Curtis does this on purpose. Whenever I watch a Curtis doco, I feel I'm being told a compelling story. However, if you ask me afterwards what it was about, I will stumble to explain what it was about. I think Curtis is trying to show the viewer the complexity of the world and how difficult…

> I think Curtis does this on purpose. Whenever I watch a Curtis doco, I feel I'm being told a compelling story. However, if you ask me afterwards what it was about, I will stumble to explain what it was about.

Agreed.

> I think Curtis is trying to show the viewer the complexity of the world

An alternative, more reasonable take is that Adam Curtis is a bullshitter, whose documentaries give the illusion of understanding complicated subjects without any actual understanding.

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#49
Curtis makes interesting films and digs up some fascinating footage.

And yet, what he offers up is profoundly orthodox, explicit, postmodernism with a capital P: the music, visuals, world view, narrative style, overlapping narratives, the intertextuality.

My sense is that he is somehow simultaneously frustrated and altogether too pleased with the fact that this is the best story he can tell. That is, that everything is connected in a bewildering, unknowable number of ways and nobody has any real new understanding as to how best to move forward beyond the old paradigms that trap us.

He frequently criticises the left for not having any new ideas—with some merit. Ultimately, however, neither does he.

Re: Adam Curtis’ “Bitter Lake”: A Review

#50
I didn't care much for the review; way too much verbiage before he gets to talking about the film.

I found the film difficult to consume.

He mentions "wahaabism" very early on. Then he keeps linking the Taliban to wahaabism. Well, they're related, in that both are islamic revivalists. But from the start, the mention of "wahaabism" put me off, and led me to question his arguments. You see, there is nobody that refers to him/herself as a "wahaabist". The term is considered insulting. Saudi revivalists call themselves "salafists".

So that got my ears pricked-up looking for propaganda.

He then launches into a long chain of argument, claiming that the Taliban are the direct result of CIA interference in the Moslem world. I can't refute that claim, but I found many of the links in the chain rather tenuous; and his conclusions depend on all of those links.

There is a lot of footage I've not seen before, and a bunch of material that was pretty interesting. But the Taliban and AQ were not cut from the same cloth; the Taliban are Afghan Pashtuns, and they regard AQ as "foreigners".

Post reply on HN