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Why Monero

benkaiser.dev

81–90 of 394 posts

Re: Why Monero

#81
post #2

I'm not really happy promoting a cryptocurrency these days, given that most of them are get-rich-quick schemes, but Monero has been solid for the past 5-6 years that I've been using it. It's completely anonymous, sends quickly, has minimal fees, and it hasn't been as full of cultists as some of the other coins I've seen. I use it to pay for some things and it's always a pleasant experience. I recommend it. The only d…

My fear with strongly anonymous DeFi is indirectly harming the environment and supporting crime. Sadly doesn't look like Monero resolve these concerns.

Oh no, it works like cash!

People will do things with money that you're uncomfortable with. If it's criminal, then laws and enforcement and investigation will have to evolve. That doesn't mean "well, I guess we have to give up privacy now. "

Not your money, not your business. Privacy is important, and it's a binary proposition. It's either part of the currency or it's not. You can't have any gray area because people are fallible, malicious, and stupid. You design the system to disempower human foibles as much as you can. Monero does a good job of that.

Re: Why Monero

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what else is similarly opaque, hard to trace, anonymous and still legal tender? Cash.

I am not sure about the 'hard to trace' part. they could track the serial numbers on banknotes, for example when an ATM is dispensing the banknotes. Also there are people who persue the tracking banknotes as a hobby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_bill_tracking

It's comparing apples and oranges though isnt it? Monero is fungible, cash is not.

Re: Why Monero

#83
post #16

I'd be curious to hear from Monero fans why one might select it over Zcash? Zcash seems to have stronger security guarantees when shielded transactions are used.

There was a bug, with which the Zcash developers could have used to generate infinite coins for themselves, and it so far cannot be proven that this did not occur. I do not know how so few people are aware of it. I do not mean the trusted setup, but this: https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/zcash-counterfeiting-vuln...

The developers were funded by suspicious government organisations including DARPA and Israeli Ministry of Science and Technology.

It is centralised, with an organisation receiving significant coins directly from the protocol.

Opt-in privacy defeats much of the point and creates traceability issues - privacy needs to be the default for people to use it, for their coins to not be treated suspiciously if they turn on the privacy feature, and it is a requirement to have a large anonymity set.

Among other reasons, there are many...

Re: Why Monero

#84
post #16

I'd be curious to hear from Monero fans why one might select it over Zcash? Zcash seems to have stronger security guarantees when shielded transactions are used.

I think the reddit user someone else linked to pretty clearly explained the Monero side. Zcash has a bad reputation with darknet markets and the like that use Monero. Some of it deserved. ( I say this as someone who wrote original Zerocash protocol) https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/oui6zj/zcash_vs_mon... Also, Zcash has optional privacy. On the other hand, the decoy based privacy protocols Monero uses are not…

> the decoy based privacy protocols Monero uses are not really private at all.

This is simply not true, otherwise you should present real evidence. It is not perfect, but nothing ever will be, and Monero continues to move forward and use the best technology available. Research continues, and they hope to move away from "decoy based protocols" altogether eventually, but the tradeoffs have so far been too great. Unlike bitcoin, it is able to do large changes, since there is a completely different development culture

Re: Why Monero

#85
post #50

When you develop a value exchange that is perfectly designed for facilitating human kidnappings and subverting international sanctions, you should not be surprised when other humans decide they value institutions over this level of personal privacy. The narrative that this type of value exchange will protect people is as easily argued that it will put others at risk. We have institutions for a reason, and nobody livi…

There is one problem: freedom is necessarily also freedom for people you don't like. There's no way to make living free for good guys, and limited for bad guys. Limiting things for bad guys, you also limit them for everyone — hopefully to a lesser extent. By putting a lock on your door so that a burglar won't enter, you also prevent your friends from entering.

There is a certain balance of downsides and upsides of limitations on freedom. If you move the "safety" knob all the way to maximum, you will get a high security prison with creature comforts. Indeed, being watched and tracked at all times, and limited in what you do and where you go, you can definitely be kept out of the harm's way. If you like the motion towards this, welcome to mainland China. (If you want an antidote, re-read the Brave New World.)

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, that is, liberty is a somehow unsafe condition, else vigilance won't be needed. Some people prefer certain upsides of liberty more than certain upsides of safety. Such people founded the U.S., and it still shows here and there. (Not much, of course.)

Re: Why Monero

#86
> Your wallet contains a private key that can prove ownership of "outputs" from previous transactions on the blockchain.

If that private key is compromised can law enforcement read your past transaction history?

And if law enforcement compromises the private key on the other side of the transaction can they connect the two of you, and all your prior mutual transactions?

Re: Why Monero

#87
post #57

How can anyone think this is a good thing? At least other crypto projects have a degree of transparency going for them. I don't understand how people can possibly think that identity obfuscation at scale is a good thing for a financial system. The rule of law and democracy are far from perfect, but it is unquestionably the safest, cushiest time to be alive in human history right now for the average human being. Let's…

Rule of law & democracy began when people had far more privacy than today. The founding motivations for the USA included resisting privacy abuses like 'general warrants' – the state peeking into everyone's business, without specific suspicion, to find criminals.

The modern level of financial surveillance – KYC, etc – is only a few decades old, and collects more info for the state than any 'general warrant' could. Even in fairly-free countries, the burdens & murky liabilities created by turning every financial agent into a part-time police informer has the effect of persecuting & impoverishing disfavored individuals & groups – even those who've been convicted of no crime. In unfree states the same surveillance helps quash all kinds of dissent.

A blind faith in authorities' use of financial surveillance ignores history & the current reality of billions living under untrustworthy regimes. Many hardly even pretend to offer "rule of law & democracy".

Re: Why Monero

#88
post #57

How can anyone think this is a good thing? At least other crypto projects have a degree of transparency going for them. I don't understand how people can possibly think that identity obfuscation at scale is a good thing for a financial system. The rule of law and democracy are far from perfect, but it is unquestionably the safest, cushiest time to be alive in human history right now for the average human being. Let's…

You know what else is similarly opaque, hard to trace, anonymous and still legal tender? Cash.

And it has to be transported physically so there is actually a limit to how much illegal stuff you can do.

There is a reason that the scams and ransomware use Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency instead of cash.

Re: Why Monero

#89

> Your wallet contains a private key that can prove ownership of "outputs" from previous transactions on the blockchain. If that private key is compromised can law enforcement read your past transaction history? And if law enforcement compromises the private key on the other side of the transaction can they connect the two of you, and all your prior mutual transactions?

Yes. This is intentional and required to make it possible to opt-in to revealing transaction information. This is useful and enables compliance with current regulations.

Of course you can delete that key if you want, and perhaps run multiple wallets with which you can transact with yourself

Re: Why Monero

#90
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure about the 'hard to trace' part. they could track the serial numbers on banknotes, for example when an ATM is dispensing the banknotes. Also there are people who persue the tracking banknotes as a hobby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_bill_tracking

It's comparing apples and oranges though isnt it? Monero is fungible, cash is not.

Except for the de minimus overhead of making-change/breaking-big-bills, physical cash is usually described as 'fungible' in the sense meaningful for economics: each $N is completely equivalent to any other $N – na matter its history or how the tally was subdivided/recombined over time.
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