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Why Monero

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Re: Why Monero

#71

Post by scoofy »

jpadkins wrote: post #59
scoofy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you live in a place where kidnapping isn't common, doesn't mean that it is not is common across the globe. https://lb-aps-frontend.statista.com/statistics/275545/kidna... The idea that an email asking for a blockchain currency is somehow more difficult than a dead drop of physical currency is absurd. While there are some merits, this type of value exchange is a dangerous vehicle for facilitating human ex…

you kind of proved my point. kidnappers already use cash, and changing that to different mechanism isn't going to increase or decrease the amount of crime. You haven't explained any reason why digital anonymous currency will increase crime or make it harder to catch them. Evil people use neutral tools for evil purposes. They have been since the beginning of tools. So stop trying to slow the advance of technology just…

I'm not against blockchain technology. I'm against creating a systematically anonymous blockchain. Identity and reputation in value exchanges matter in society, both legally and philosophically.

Monero seems much better suited as a weapon against real totalitarian regimes. If it is illegal in both a free and unfree society, then it will only have a practical purpose in the unfree society, whereas the free society will have plentiful alternatives.

Re: Why Monero

#72

Post by paulryanrogers »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #64
paulryanrogers wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My fear with strongly anonymous DeFi is indirectly harming the environment and supporting crime. Sadly doesn't look like Monero resolve these concerns.

There's lots of things that an order of magnitude more folks do that harm the environment than DeFi/cryptocurrency/shitcoin gambling. I'd love to revisit the environmental impacts of cryptocurrency after we've moved to electric cars, decreased car usage, decreased HVAC waste, made our toilets/sinks/showers more efficient, made our factories run on hydrogen instead of coal, and clean up shipping emissions. Once we're…

That's one approach. Another is to tackle low hanging fruit.

What is lost if DeFi were more heavily regulated or outlawed? What is lost if shipping were more more heavily regulated / outlawed?

Ultimately we have to do many things, and solutions aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: Why Monero

#73

Post by heavyset_go »

cowpig wrote: post #57

How can anyone think this is a good thing? At least other crypto projects have a degree of transparency going for them. I don't understand how people can possibly think that identity obfuscation at scale is a good thing for a financial system. The rule of law and democracy are far from perfect, but it is unquestionably the safest, cushiest time to be alive in human history right now for the average human being. Let's…

Cash exists and can change hands without there being a record of transactions. At the lower end of the economy, many people are paid in cash and transact in cash, and as you've said, society hasn't imploded.

The government tends to go after lower and middle class people when enforcing laws. I think the benefits of preserving privacy outweigh the IRS collecting the $600 someone who makes $30k owes.

Re: Why Monero

#74

Post by enragedcacti »

api wrote: post #61
cowpig wrote: post #57

How can anyone think this is a good thing? At least other crypto projects have a degree of transparency going for them. I don't understand how people can possibly think that identity obfuscation at scale is a good thing for a financial system. The rule of law and democracy are far from perfect, but it is unquestionably the safest, cushiest time to be alive in human history right now for the average human being. Let's…

It’s also possible to argue that your perspective comes from a place of privilege, namely the privilege of living in a country with some respect for human rights and the rule of law. That is an anomaly in human history. Much of the world still lives under governments that are hostile to many of their people, and we can easily slide back to that condition. I also have to point out that cash is largely opaque and we ha…

I don't have a horse in this race, but one difference between cash and monero is that the sheer physical size of cash can cause lots of problems for organized crime[1], to the point that some people advocate for eliminating the $100 bill to make moving large amounts of cash more burdensome [2]. As far as I am aware its irrelevant how much money you are moving in monero until you get up to transaction sizes that effect the price of other monero you hold.

[1] https://freakonomics.com/podcast/still-using-cash/

[2]https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/opinion/getting-rid-of-bi...

Re: Why Monero

#75

Post by scoofy »

darksaints wrote: post #60
scoofy wrote: post #50

When you develop a value exchange that is perfectly designed for facilitating human kidnappings and subverting international sanctions, you should not be surprised when other humans decide they value institutions over this level of personal privacy. The narrative that this type of value exchange will protect people is as easily argued that it will put others at risk. We have institutions for a reason, and nobody livi…

Those institutions that are supposed to protect us are systematically stealing from us without due process via civil forfeiture, and they're doing it on a scale that outweighs all burglaries nationwide. You shouldn't be surprised when Americans value privacy over institutions. Our institutions are more criminal than our criminals.

>While there are some merits, this type of value exchange is a dangerous vehicle for facilitating human exploitation. We need to start talking about that fact more, instead of the fever dreams that those of us in the free world somehow live in some faux-totalitarian state, simply because you can't legally purchase MDMA or cocaine.

>stealing from us without due process via civil forfeiture

Yea, this is exactly the type of faux-totalitarian nonsense i was talking about in the other thread. If we live in a free society, we can change the types of laws we don't like, and in the case of civil forfeiture, we should, and are, but pretending like one bad law justifies something with these consequences is ridiculous.

Re: Why Monero

#76

Post by joe_the_user »

DennisP wrote: post #46
joe_the_user wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really happy promoting a cryptocurrency these days, given that most of them are get-rich-quick schemes, They're get-rich-quick schemes plus money laundering/capital-flight mechanisms. And if you think capital flight is more ethical than a get-rich-quick scheme, I'd like to introduce you to X oligarch on Y continent committing Z poorly publicized genocide. Edit: that said, the way that they facilitate dubious…

Oligarchs are well taken care of by the traditional offshore banking industry. They don't need to fall back on crypto like regular folks.

That the wealthy have many other avenues for exfiltrating money doesn't change the situation that crypto is an extremely effective method for doing that. A lot of people need as many channels for the exporting of wealth as they can get.

Iran's rulers might or might be oligarchs but the use of bitcoin by the Iranian state[1] seems like good evidence that crypto isn't just for the little guy.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/iran-uses-crypto-mining-l...

Re: Why Monero

#77

Post by hcurtiss »

colordrops wrote: post #31
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #25

I've tried using Monero because of it's supposed privacy features, and found that the official desktop gui clients is completely unusable. I'm not just talking usability and design issues -- I'm talking random crashes and freezes, if it manages to launch at all. When I brought these issues to the dev team, I was basically told to fuck off.

I tried mining, tried buying, and tried various wallets, and I couldn't get any of them to work. And I'm a highly paid software engineer with decades of experience.

FWIW - I’ve used both Cake Wallet and Edge Wallet on iOS and both work very well. Fast, cheap, reliable transactions.

Re: Why Monero

#78

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

0xdeadb00f wrote: post #66
cowpig wrote: post #57

How can anyone think this is a good thing? At least other crypto projects have a degree of transparency going for them. I don't understand how people can possibly think that identity obfuscation at scale is a good thing for a financial system. The rule of law and democracy are far from perfect, but it is unquestionably the safest, cushiest time to be alive in human history right now for the average human being. Let's…

You know what else is similarly opaque, hard to trace, anonymous and still legal tender? Cash.

I am not sure about the 'hard to trace' part. they could track the serial numbers on banknotes, for example when an ATM is dispensing the banknotes. Also there are people who persue the tracking banknotes as a hobby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_bill_tracking

Re: Why Monero

#79

Post by ofrzeta »

cowpig wrote: post #57

How can anyone think this is a good thing? At least other crypto projects have a degree of transparency going for them. I don't understand how people can possibly think that identity obfuscation at scale is a good thing for a financial system. The rule of law and democracy are far from perfect, but it is unquestionably the safest, cushiest time to be alive in human history right now for the average human being. Let's…

The current trend in Europe is even more transparency in the financial affairs of private customers. There's a new law in effect in Germany that prescribes some document of origin if you deposit more than 10.000 Euros of cash in your account. While I am all for measures against laundering money I don't like being continously watched and monitored.

Re: Why Monero

#80

Post by ianmiers »

cowpig wrote: post #57

How can anyone think this is a good thing? At least other crypto projects have a degree of transparency going for them. I don't understand how people can possibly think that identity obfuscation at scale is a good thing for a financial system. The rule of law and democracy are far from perfect, but it is unquestionably the safest, cushiest time to be alive in human history right now for the average human being. Let's…

Because Bitcoin is twitter for your bank account. It exposes everything you do to anyone who can download the blockchain.

You can argue that some gov/regulator should have access, though good luck finding one country everyone trusts. More realistically, and practically, you could require that, as many jurisdictions do with cash, we should have reporting requirements for when a merchant sells something for large amounts of cryptocurrency.

But its pretty hard to argue everyone should be financially naked and exposed to anyone who wants to look. To fix that, even if you're government surveillance friendly, you first need to make the blockchain zero-knowledge (which Monero actually isn't good at, but thats irrelevant here).

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