Are OnGres or Álvaro Hernández active in PostgreSQL development, or otherwise active in the community?
Or have they appeared out of nowhere?
Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
51–60 of 127 posts
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#52Álvaro Hernández here apparently runs a PostgreSQL consulting firm [1] and controls "Fundación PostgreSQL." Would Fundación PostgreSQL have the power to grant exclusive use of the trademark to the consulting firm? [1] https://ongres.com/about-us/#team
Fundación PostgreSQL is a 100% independent non-profit organization not tied to any company or any other institution. Its governing board cannot have more than 40% members of the same company. Please go to https://postgresql.fund/ and read the Statutes. Actually, a "Fundación" in Spain is an entity specially scrutinized by the Ministry of Justice, and could never to anything like this. It is meant to be for the public…
The only name I can find on the "Fundación PostgreSQL" web site is yours. The PostgreSQL core team membership is listed on postgresql.org and includes 7 members from 4 different companies. I agree that perhaps the PostgreSQL core team could and should have more diversity than it does, and not just in terms of who employs them ... but an organization with only one publicly-disclosed member is not somehow better.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#53Why does this happen? What's the point of trademarks existing at all, if you have to fight for it every time someone makes a claim to it? What's the point of registration if the same trademark will be awarded again without regard to existing trademarks in the same region?
In general you are responsible for defending your trademarks and taking action if they are violated.
In non-obvious cases this makes perfect sense. There’s plenty of abandoned trademarks. This system means that you can’t just take old and forgotten trademark and start suddenly demanding money from companies that (unknowingly) infringe it.
I believe this is also the reason why big name brands sometimes go after individuals for trademark violations.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#54Are OnGres or Álvaro Hernández active in PostgreSQL development, or otherwise active in the community? Or have they appeared out of nowhere?
I believe this is their HN profile, see for yourself (as indicated by comments from them in this thread): https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ahachete
Personally I'm interested in hearing more from them, as they don't fit the "trademark troll" description that commenters seem to be taking for granted here. Seeing some interesting discussion dynamics at play.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fundación PostgreSQL is a 100% independent non-profit organization not tied to any company or any other institution. Its governing board cannot have more than 40% members of the same company. Please go to https://postgresql.fund/ and read the Statutes. Actually, a "Fundación" in Spain is an entity specially scrutinized by the Ministry of Justice, and could never to anything like this. It is meant to be for the public…
The only name I can find on the "Fundación PostgreSQL" web site is yours. The PostgreSQL core team membership is listed on postgresql.org and includes 7 members from 4 different companies. I agree that perhaps the PostgreSQL core team could and should have more diversity than it does, and not just in terms of who employs them ... but an organization with only one publicly-disclosed member is not somehow better.
I agree that we need to enhance the website and give more visibility to the people behind the foundation. We will do so shortly.
Yet this is public (as in the public registries).
Please contact us if you want further information.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#56Álvaro Hernández here apparently runs a PostgreSQL consulting firm [1] and controls "Fundación PostgreSQL." Would Fundación PostgreSQL have the power to grant exclusive use of the trademark to the consulting firm? [1] https://ongres.com/about-us/#team
Fundación PostgreSQL is a 100% independent non-profit organization not tied to any company or any other institution. Its governing board cannot have more than 40% members of the same company. Please go to https://postgresql.fund/ and read the Statutes. Actually, a "Fundación" in Spain is an entity specially scrutinized by the Ministry of Justice, and could never to anything like this. It is meant to be for the public…
> Fundación PostgreSQL is a 100% independent non-profit organization not tied to any company or any other institution.
What about private individuals? Specifically, you?
Quoting the charter here: https://postgresql.fund/documents/Fundacion_PostgreSQL-Statu...:
""" Article 13. Honorary Members. ... 2. The Founder, Mr. Alvaro Carlos Hernandez Tortosa, is Honorary Life Member as the Honorary President of the Foundation, appointment that is not incompatible with any other post at the Foundation or the Patronage. He can assist the Patronage acts with voice. He doesn’t have the right to vote, unless his status of elected or founding Member of the Patronage applies. """
It goes on to say:
""" Article 15. Duties of the Patronage. During its performance, the Patronage must comply with the required under current legislation and the willingness of the Founder expressed in this Statutes. """
I have to admit that this document is above my reading comprehension level. What does this actually mean?
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only name I can find on the "Fundación PostgreSQL" web site is yours. The PostgreSQL core team membership is listed on postgresql.org and includes 7 members from 4 different companies. I agree that perhaps the PostgreSQL core team could and should have more diversity than it does, and not just in terms of who employs them ... but an organization with only one publicly-disclosed member is not somehow better.
I agree that we need to enhance the website and give more visibility to the people behind the foundation. We will do so shortly. Yet this is public (as in the public registries). Please contact us if you want further information.
Just post the list here to get the ball rolling?
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#58Are OnGres or Álvaro Hernández active in PostgreSQL development, or otherwise active in the community? Or have they appeared out of nowhere?
I believe this is their HN profile, see for yourself (as indicated by comments from them in this thread): https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ahachete Personally I'm interested in hearing more from them, as they don't fit the "trademark troll" description that commenters seem to be taking for granted here. Seeing some interesting discussion dynamics at play.
At the same time though, they aren't playing the role of good community citizen either. It's really confusing to see what the motivations are here.
Why openly antagonize a community that you claim to be a part of and represent? I hope there is more to it, but otherwise, this just seems like a stunt.
Surely @ahachete must realize that the Postgres Core team must defend their trademarks (otherwise they can be lost or lose protection). And either way, I just don't see the endgame here.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that we need to enhance the website and give more visibility to the people behind the foundation. We will do so shortly. Yet this is public (as in the public registries). Please contact us if you want further information.
Just post the list here to get the ball rolling?
Rubén J. Bravo, Manuel Argiz, César Calvo Pinilla, Alberto Picón and myself.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe this is their HN profile, see for yourself (as indicated by comments from them in this thread): https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ahachete Personally I'm interested in hearing more from them, as they don't fit the "trademark troll" description that commenters seem to be taking for granted here. Seeing some interesting discussion dynamics at play.
At the same time though, they aren't playing the role of good community citizen either. It's really confusing to see what the motivations are here. Why openly antagonize a community that you claim to be a part of and represent? I hope there is more to it, but otherwise, this just seems like a stunt. Surely @ahachete must realize that the Postgres Core team must defend their trademarks (otherwise they can be lost or l…
Yes I'm a bit confused about their motivations too. Sharing what I've pieced together so far (and trying to approach this from a good-faith perspective):
My understanding so far is that they run a Postgres consulting firm [1], and it appears they took the liberty of registering a Postgres trademark for the class of "professional services" in order to (I presume) protect fair use by their firm and (they claim in their response) by others in the Postgres community.
Some of this is admittedly speculation on my part, and I'm trying to take a charitable view of their actions to try to understand why a community member would do this.
That said I have no opinion on whether this action is net good for the community, and I'm not a Postgres user so I have no horse in this race. It's just the social dynamics of this situation that are interesting to me.