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Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

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Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#281
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Employment' is abused by the government to provide social benefits that it doesn't want to pay for. A job should trade work for cash and no more.

To be honest if there was government provided universal healthcare, basic income, and housing guarantees I would totally agree. It would create a ton more mobility, and take a lot of power away from employers.

Let people opt into those things, or make it up to local law and let municipalities compete on services.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#282
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some consequences. If they will be hired as employees it will be first with a temporary contract. Since there is a limitation to renewal of fixed term contracts, after a certain period the employment is seen as an indefinite employment contract rather than a new fixed term agreement. Meaning then they could not be fired something Uber will not want. The limit is 3 years or 3 contract renewals: https://www.t…

> they really are freelancers/entrepreneurs not employees Taxi drivers are not knowledge workers, or artists and clearly not entrepreneurs. They are easily replaceable "cogs in the machine", like many non-specialised factory workers, office clerks, retail employees and so on. There's a reason why humanity introduced protections for vulnerable workers in almost every society.

Exactly. It's unskilled or semi-skilled work. Treating them the same as freelancers doesn't reflect reality as they have almost no leverage in there situation with their employers.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#283
post #61

What we have here is a unique, unprecedented, real life experiment in Game Theory. Possible outcomes: - Uber could pull out from the Netherlands - Drivers in the Netherlands could organize themselves, but they will need a structure similar to Uber - Other countries will follow the Netherlands ruling We could see the implosion of the gig economy (doubt it) or - most probably - some places like the Netherlands will be…

I think the competitive advantages of Uber will weaken with all these legal challenges. In NYC, as Uber prices increased dramatically after the pandemic began to wane, folks just starting catching cabs again. The cabs use ride hailing apps. I no longer care about the rating system or any of that. It is fine. In Israel, we use Gett. It's fine.

And Gett is dependent on the taxi cartel, its excessive price, the black market of taxi medallions, etc. It's a nonsensical market and we're overdue a shared transport option. Good luck getting around on Saturday.

All because it's illegal to take money to transport someone from A to B without an exorbitant license for no specific reason.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet employers are wishing they never got involved in benefits. Now they're just the governments execution arm for social programs and they're stuck forever. Looking back, the only reason employers started getting involved in Healthcare was because the 1942 Stabilization Act restricted them from raising wages and they had to come up with a more creative way of competing for talent. Now the ACA forces companies to pr…

I wish more people realized how anti-capitalist the current healthcare system is in the U.S. If you want to encourage business, then remove barriers. Governments should be taking care of healthcare, not businesses. Businesses should be focused on the core work they do: Running their business. Not on providing health care. (Same goes, really, for childcare, transportation, and similar benefits that large employers som…

Can the government take back all those sweet sweet tax deductions they provide in exchange?

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#285
Good.

Uber is a unsustainable business built employee exploitation to effectively pay them less than minimum wage while flouting "freedom" to bait the people in the worst situations. This was known from the start. Meanwhile subsidising rides with investor-cash to effectively bait-and-switch society. The recent-ish price hikes are only a start.

Anyone repeating their PR should be ashamed. "gigs" are cancer or wait, this is hackernews so "Gig-economy considered harmful" is the correct nomenclature I guess.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet employers are wishing they never got involved in benefits. Now they're just the governments execution arm for social programs and they're stuck forever. Looking back, the only reason employers started getting involved in Healthcare was because the 1942 Stabilization Act restricted them from raising wages and they had to come up with a more creative way of competing for talent. Now the ACA forces companies to pr…

Considering those same employers also get massive subsidies for every kind of self-inflicted damage, which results in massive C-suit cash-outs and buy-backs, this is the least the commons could hope for.

I guess I was thinking more about small to medium sized businesses. A business with 50-100 employees has to enforce government social programs but there won't be any c-suite golden parachutes.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example in my part of the UK, only designated taxis can pick up ride hailers on the street, sort of like black cabs in London. Yeah, that makes sense, that's the only thing I've seen around the world as well. But can these designated taxis reject customers at will? That was my question.

Practically, they can but I'm not sure about the regulations. Interesting question though.

In most countries Taxi drivers cannot refuse a passenger hailing them. Its difficult to enforce and they normally claim they did not see you but they must take you:

UK:

"Cabbies can be penalised for refusing passengers" https://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltagov/en/newsroom/2019/8/3/c...

Canada - Montreal:

https://ville.montreal.qc.ca/pls/portal/docs/page/bur_taxi_f...

"Le titulaire d'un permis de chauffeur de taxi ne peut refuser d'effectuer une course"

France:

"Normalement, un taxi n'a pas le droit de refuser une course sauf si vous êtes à 50 mètres d'une borne de taxi et qu'un taxi attend à cette borne"

https://www.europe1.fr/societe/taxi-ce-qui-est-legal-et-ce-q....

and so on...

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#289
post #285

Good. Uber is a unsustainable business built employee exploitation to effectively pay them less than minimum wage while flouting "freedom" to bait the people in the worst situations. This was known from the start. Meanwhile subsidising rides with investor-cash to effectively bait-and-switch society. The recent-ish price hikes are only a start. Anyone repeating their PR should be ashamed. "gigs" are cancer or wait, th…

What a terribly lopsided and blanket view on a business working over 50+ different ethical and regulatory environments/societies.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#290
post #289
post #285

Good. Uber is a unsustainable business built employee exploitation to effectively pay them less than minimum wage while flouting "freedom" to bait the people in the worst situations. This was known from the start. Meanwhile subsidising rides with investor-cash to effectively bait-and-switch society. The recent-ish price hikes are only a start. Anyone repeating their PR should be ashamed. "gigs" are cancer or wait, th…

What a terribly lopsided and blanket view on a business working over 50+ different ethical and regulatory environments/societies.

More like, working around 50+ regulatory states.
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