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Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

nltimes.nl

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Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#31

Post by Robelius »

xvector wrote: post #24
airza wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a great youtube channel called "Not just bikes" which talks about urban planning in the netherlands and how it results in much more livable cities than the US.

Seconded, amazing channel that describes why American cities are a disaster. I've lived in a walkable area and QoL goes up immensely. No amount of money or luxury in an American suburb will compare. There is nothing like the sheer convenience of being able to get your groceries in a 3 minute walk.

Adding “City Beautiful” to the list of channels if you enjoy “Not Just Bikes”! It talks more generally about city planning/urban design, but satisfies the same itch of content.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#32

Post by yawaworht1978 »

amelius wrote: post #18
pjmlp wrote: post #2

I love when US companies get to learn our unions and work laws are actually to be followed upon.

But why did it take so long?

Indeed, probably massive delays by Ubers legal team. The whitelisting principle should apply for such things, this disrupt now, ask later is just a trick to gain market share at the expense of taxpayers and employees and competition which abides by the regulations.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#33

Post by FartyMcFarter »

chrisseaton wrote: post #20
sktrdie wrote: post #6

Bit out of context but I just came back from US (living in Netherlands). Holy flipping hell that place is full of cars. Literally everywhere. I mean I understand using a car upstate New York where things are further apart and everyone has a huge isolated villa. But do you really need 4 lane roads in freaking manhattan? Seems like regulating "car stuff" in general is always a good thing if you ask me.

I can't understand who would want to drive in Manhattan. Like where are they coming from and where are they going? Where do they intend to park when they get there? It wouldn't occur to me in a million years to attempt to drive into a metropolis like that. I see normal private cars driving through New York and London and can't imagine who is in them and what they're attempting to do that means their best route is thr…

> I can't understand who would want to drive in Manhattan.

I think the idea is that people will drive if their tolerance level for slowness is satisfied. So the amount of traffic will always be high enough to look acceptable for some people, unacceptable for others.

As for parking, in London there are definitely parking lots scattered around the city - can't speak for New York though.

> Like where are they coming from and where are they going?

Probably going between their homes and family / friends / shops / entertainment venues / restaurants.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#34

Post by bserge »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #19
kfk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Uber might be right here. EU labor laws protect a few but over a certain salary they are not very appealing. In Italy paying a net salary of 2,000 euros will cost the company 6000+. Things included like pension are not worth their cost, a private pension is better and cheaper, same for health services. It’s unfortunate but it’s true.

I have paid the ridiculous charge from Rome's airport to the city, it's interesting how many measures airports like Rome, Madrid, Barcelona have to take to keep Uber out as good as possible. I still agree with the Dutch court. First, EU has a goal to somewhat harmonize some laws and taxes. Europe should not simply allow any company to come along and undermine everything. If Europe let's this happen, the consequence i…

> claim it from social services

You say it like they just walk in, ask for money and get it. It's really much harder, practically impossible if you're not on some priority list (with kids, disability, single mother, etc).

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#35

Post by aikinai »

bserge wrote: post #13

Why doesn't Uber employ them and guarantee minimum wage, anything extra is a bonus? Is it just the extra employee costs on the company side?

Then Uber would have to decide who works when and for how long. Right now it’s controlled by supply and demand through pricing algorithms.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#36

Post by YetAnotherNick »

gargs wrote: post #5

“Drivers don’t want to give up their freedom to choose if, when and where to work.” Drivers might have the freedom to turn off their phones and choose not to work, but they don't have the freedom to choose which routes/destinations. Seems to me that their argument is one-sided and deceptive.

They could reject based on the drop/pickup location at least in my area.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#37

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #19
kfk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Uber might be right here. EU labor laws protect a few but over a certain salary they are not very appealing. In Italy paying a net salary of 2,000 euros will cost the company 6000+. Things included like pension are not worth their cost, a private pension is better and cheaper, same for health services. It’s unfortunate but it’s true.

I have paid the ridiculous charge from Rome's airport to the city, it's interesting how many measures airports like Rome, Madrid, Barcelona have to take to keep Uber out as good as possible. I still agree with the Dutch court. First, EU has a goal to somewhat harmonize some laws and taxes. Europe should not simply allow any company to come along and undermine everything. If Europe let's this happen, the consequence i…

It's probably worth noting that the EU has nothing to do with this. These are policies of individual countries, EU has very little if anything to do with taxes, pensions or health care.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#38

Post by lifeisstillgood »

The thing that interests me here is company valuation. The base idea is that you predict the future profits of a company and NPV that down to today, and that's how much the total share price should be.

This of course is tricky, but at some point all the big regulatory arbitrage plays (uber, airbnb) etc were obvious for what they were - and I am not sure they got adjusted. In other words short term competition and PR played as big a role it seems in valuation models as did "can airbnb keep renting out against local laws"

I have not dug into their IPO documents but it must be in there.

But once you are worth a gazillion dollars regulators have an uphill struggle.

The thing is short selling is such a poor way to signal criticism of the company. Investing is a default optimistic thing.

And I am not sure there is an alternative. Some kind of anti-investment?

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#39

Post by ihalip »

kfk wrote: post #10
elgfare wrote: post #7

Uber says the majority of drivers don't want this, which I'd call bs on, but has anyone heard from actual drivers what they want?

I think Uber might be right here. EU labor laws protect a few but over a certain salary they are not very appealing. In Italy paying a net salary of 2,000 euros will cost the company 6000+. Things included like pension are not worth their cost, a private pension is better and cheaper, same for health services. It’s unfortunate but it’s true.

No way taxes are 66% of the gross salary.

Re: Uber must employ its drivers, Dutch court rules

#40

Post by bserge »

aikinai wrote: post #35
bserge wrote: post #13

Why doesn't Uber employ them and guarantee minimum wage, anything extra is a bonus? Is it just the extra employee costs on the company side?

Then Uber would have to decide who works when and for how long. Right now it’s controlled by supply and demand through pricing algorithms.

OK, bear with me here. Same system as now, but if you make less than minimum hourly wage (calculated every month), the company covers the difference.

I am pretty sure the drivers would nearly always make more than that.

Or is it illegal to just have employees set their own time/targets?

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