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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

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Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#421

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #419
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many places are completely over this already. For example?

Florida has been open for awhile and Gov DeSantis is actively fighting measures that would require vaccine passports etc.

Florida ICUs are full, has a peak COVID death rate right now, and there isn't much end in sight.

https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/09/florida-adds...

How is that "a place where everything has returned to normal"? Ya, some people are ignoring COVID, but it isn't ignoring them.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#422

Post by seanmcdirmid »

spookthesunset wrote: post #420
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many places are completely over this already. For example?

Drive 20 miles outside any blue city and nobody cares.

Rural areas have been particularly hit hard. Wyoming ICUs are full up, for example.

https://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/health/wyomings-cov...

It doesn't get any less blue than Wyoming (except for Jackson, but it isn't that big of a city).

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#423

Post by Straw »

13years wrote: post #277
Straw wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the data suggests that vaccines significantly reduce transmission, both by decreasing the likelihood of infection and onward transmission from vaccinated individuals. Additionally, anything that incentivizes more people to get the vaccine will result in higher uptake, which benefits everyone in terms of lower overall spread and hospital usage.

All the current data suggests something very different. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/06/fully-v...

I can't find any source in there suggesting a lack of effectiveness. The underlying source linked by the article mentions a reduction of 80% in symptomatic disease, which is responsible for most transmission. I can't find anything very recent, but here's an analysis that takes Delta into account:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Finding 80+% protection against symptomatic disease and ~40% reduction in onwards transmission, from three different modelling groups.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#424

Post by chii »

joenot443 wrote: post #394
Nexxxeh wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Privacy conscious people object. Now the response is, hey, you already have to show your driving license if you get pulled over for speeding, what's the difference? The main objections to vaccine passports in England aren't privacy, they're that it discriminates against those who refuse to get vaccinated. >And you don't have to show your vaccine passport if you, um, never go outside again. You'd have to show your va…

>The main objections to vaccine passports in England aren't privacy, they're that it discriminates against those who refuse to get vaccinated. Plenty of Canadians, like myself, have huge objections to the privacy implications of our passport program.

what is the privacy concern, other than the private info of whether you chose to get a vaccine or not?

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#425

Post by TeeMassive »

Retric wrote: post #410
TeeMassive wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link doesn't say anything about the confidentiality of vaccine status. What are you even talking about? Immunization status is considered protected information according to the HIPAA and the ADA, and similar laws exist in other jurisdictions. https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/... https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-covid-1... https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-v…

> confidentiality of vaccine status The requirement to provide the information says otherwise. Your sexual orientation is private information your employer can’t ask about, your vaccination status isn’t protected. Providing it can be required for employment. Your third link even says: The EEOC confirmed “there’s no indication that there’s any federal law that would be violated by the employer asking this question.” .…

> The requirement to provide the information says otherwise.

Which requirement?

> Your sexual orientation is private information your employer can’t ask about, your vaccination status isn’t protected. Providing it can be required for employment. Your third link even says: The EEOC confirmed “there’s no indication that there’s any federal law that would be violated by the employer asking this question.”. It also in most cases it can be a requirement for employment.

You're confusing being able to ask and discriminating against vaccination / medical status. The things an employer can't ask are very specific (and numerous). The things an employer can't discriminate against are more broad.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#426

Post by TeeMassive »

chii wrote: post #424
joenot443 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The main objections to vaccine passports in England aren't privacy, they're that it discriminates against those who refuse to get vaccinated. Plenty of Canadians, like myself, have huge objections to the privacy implications of our passport program.

what is the privacy concern, other than the private info of whether you chose to get a vaccine or not?

The reason people do not want to show their immunization status in public is nobody's business. There is no need to justify concern in the first place. Medical information secrecy is a fundamental right protected by the Constitution in the US and the Charter of Rights in Canada and for very good reasons.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#427

Post by nobodyandproud »

ghoward wrote: post #417
nobodyandproud wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that it’s a responsible decision, one that won’t have consequences for people who cannot get vaccinated?

I'm saying it could be a responsible decision for the person making the decision. The false premise that we should care about other people's health is annoying at this point. The vaccinated can still spread the virus, so we should make the decision to get vaccinated for ourselves, and those who don't make the orthodox decision should not be vilified.

What makes it a false premise?

People are quite tired of the unvaccinated who choose to opt-out without medical or traditional religious reasons; it’s worn thin because the decision affects people who want to get vaccinated but can’t.

You don’t have worry about government mandates, though that’s inevitable.

The unvaccinated won’t be able to find a job; or even conduct business the way things are going.

And soon, you won’t get ICU beds either. These choices have consequences.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#428

Post by spookthesunset »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #421
dkdk8283 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida has been open for awhile and Gov DeSantis is actively fighting measures that would require vaccine passports etc.

Florida ICUs are full, has a peak COVID death rate right now, and there isn't much end in sight. https://www.local10.com/news/florida/2021/09/09/florida-adds... How is that "a place where everything has returned to normal"? Ya, some people are ignoring COVID, but it isn't ignoring them.

If they don’t care, so what? What business of it is yours? Perhaps there is more to life than a myopic fixation on exactly one very specific illness.

By doing these mandates you are imposing your own values upon everybody else. For more than a year and a half! With no clear end goal! Indefinitely! Talk about selfish!

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#429

Post by skocznymroczny »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #165
motohagiography wrote: post #21

This is hopeful news, because the passport plans completely debased the practical, pro-social, and even altruistic aspects of the vaccine program. However, provincial and federal politicians in Canada have also very cynically lied about this in the recent past, where they said they were against them and they wouldn't happen, to making snap announcements that they were implementing them with hard deadlines, so let's s…

Same in the US. Both Biden (later confirmed by his press secretary) and Fauci previously stated they would not mandate vaccines.

The strategy was to vaccinate over half of the people, so that it'd be easier to pressure the remaining half later. People who already got vaccinated will ask what's the big deal... until their 'vaccine passport freedoms' get revoked because they only had two doses instead of three, four and however more are planned.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#430

Post by tinus_hn »

jmull wrote: post #414
tinus_hn wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to show a different study. Whatever the exact number it’s clear that it’s nowhere near 100% (just like 76% is not), and whatever booster scheme you fantasize about has to be accounted for in these vaccine passport schemes, which, surprise surprise, typically is not the case. As long as you did the blessed dance of 2 Pfizer or Moderna shots you’re clear to go.

We’re back to nobody said the vaccines are 100% effective. You also don’t address the arguments raised and instead argue against things that aren’t being argued, like “booster scheme” fantasies. I think you’re just trolling. It’s weird, because to the extent you are able to convince anyone, you can, at best, get some people killed. What even is the point of that? Worse, your mealy arguments could only work on the poo…

Yeah we’re back to you claiming that 42 is 100. Sorry, I don’t think this is going anywhere.
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