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The Buffett Indicator

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41–50 of 110 posts

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#41
post #35
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not that bad! Still seems potentially very useful.

it's approximately 50/50. You're almost just as good with a coinflip.

A coinflip would be a 3650/5 or so.

A biased coinflip that gives 5 signals would be 5/0.

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#42

All dollar-denominated graphs in the article use linear scales, which is misleading, because price inflation is compounded (exponential). Compare the difference in how steady inflation looks between linear (left) and logarithmic (right) here: https://www.graphpad.com/guides/prism/7/user-guide/images/em... This is not to dismiss the fact stock market valuations are outstripping growth of the economy, but the article i…

The chart here is a ratio. Both the numerator and denominator are the same unit, so it doesn't matter if the unit inflates.

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#43
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An inverted yield curve has accurately predicted 9 out of the last 5 recessions ;) You can even see it on the chart in the linked article, in 2005/06 — that time, it was different.

This "9 out of the last 5" quote is the deadest of beaten horses on HN. It shows up at least once a week here, and it is written with such smugness and unoriginality that it makes even dad jokes funny by comparison. Let's cut to the chase and make a bot that posts "9 out of the last 5 recessions, hyuk!" on every post remotely related to finance and be done with it. It is the furthest thing from a substantive comment;…

9 out of 5 readers cringe at this type of comment.

(I’ve never heard of the expression before so I found it amusing)

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#44
I would just like to point out the fact that the S&P 500 is almost four times higher capitalized than it was a decade ago. There are three obvious reasons for this that come to my mind:

* There has been massive asset inflation.

* The market is in a speculative bubble.

* The 500 largest American companies really are ~4 times more valuable than they were 10 years ago.

Even with #3, the best case scenario, that alone should be setting off major alarm bells, because their material contribution to society hasn't increased fourfold, so that increased valuation must be coming from somewhere, that is to say, control over society more generally.

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#45
post #37

Now divide by M1 money supply. Is it the stock market over valued or the dollar devaluing as they print trillions of them.

I wondered about this too, but both sides of the ratio are denominated in current dollars, so dollar valuation is already divided out: ratio of total US stock market value to US GDP

There's just one more step; the market's value is an expectation of the future while the GDP is a 'now' metric. So while inflation is auto-adjusted (roughly) in the past, a strong expectation of inflation now can send the market cap up (and either GDP will catch up, be it natural or on inflated dollar terms) or the market will crash, or some combination of the two to bring the indicator back to earth.

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#46
post #12
post #5

The problem with macro-economic composites is that at that level, everything is unfolding on different timescales. So around transitional moments, your end result is going to go wonky. GDP plummets -> interest rates are dropped -> GDP recovers -> interest rates are raised You're balancing between responsiveness, accuracy, and reliability: pick two. I'd have thought the last few crises would have taught us that we sho…

> You're balancing between responsiveness, accuracy, and reliability: pick two. Can you explain the difference between accuracy and reliability in this context?

Not OP, but I imagine it's something like "precision" vs. "how often correct." So you can be extremely precise quickly, but not all the time. Or you can be extremely precise all the time, but not in time to make good decisions. Et al.

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#47
post #37

Now divide by M1 money supply. Is it the stock market over valued or the dollar devaluing as they print trillions of them.

I wondered about this too, but both sides of the ratio are denominated in current dollars, so dollar valuation is already divided out: ratio of total US stock market value to US GDP

Maybe inflation is not hitting these at the same pace?

The money supply has been increasing for already some time, but only now we are seeing inflation catching up for example on consumer prices.

For money supply to show in consumer/business side of GDP, money created by central bank need to be distributed. When interest rates have been low, maybe banks were hesitant to start pushing money to individuals and businesses and it instead ended up in stock market.

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fed Fund Rate vs 30YT since 1970(only cherry picking this year because the data on fred is poor before this period, and end of gold standard is significant) is a perfect 8/8[0]. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=ENDs

And how many degrees of freedom went into the choice of metrics to compare? Just because something went 8/8 doesn't mean it will predict the future crashes.

I'd argue that minimum time frame -> maximum time frame is a more fundamental metric than any other individual yield curve.

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#49
post #8

The problem with these indicators is that, although they may indicate over- or undervaluation, they tell you nothing about when a mean reversion will happen. As Keynes famously said: "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." An indicator that does a pretty good job of signaling the "when" of a recession, and by extension the likely "when" of large market corrections, is yield curve inversion.…

[deleted]

Re: The Buffett Indicator

#50
post #42

All dollar-denominated graphs in the article use linear scales, which is misleading, because price inflation is compounded (exponential). Compare the difference in how steady inflation looks between linear (left) and logarithmic (right) here: https://www.graphpad.com/guides/prism/7/user-guide/images/em... This is not to dismiss the fact stock market valuations are outstripping growth of the economy, but the article i…

The chart here is a ratio. Both the numerator and denominator are the same unit, so it doesn't matter if the unit inflates.

Yes, the first chart is a ratio, but Figures 1 and 2 immediately following it are not.
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