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Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

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Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they actually only tested 31 cannabis users against a controll group of 40 This is exactly like I said. In fact nothing you say contradicts anything I've said, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Adding more participants would measure the same subtle difference with increasing precision, but it's unclear what the point of that would be.* The next logical step is to look further into voice effects, sin…

"nothing at all about the power of the study merits it being called absurd. " Well, I have not read the paper in detail, because I do not want to buy it. So I would not claim it to be absurd in its whole. But what I can read is that the title of it makes a factual statement, while in the text you find the word "maybe". So "absurd" might be fitting for that. And 31 is a really, really low number, for the goal: "The ai…

> while in the text you find the word "maybe".

I think it's fair to criticize a study if you think the headline (or the popular writeup) oversells it. However, my reading here is that the abstract basically says

"It's possible that W, X, Y, and Z are different in our populations. However we can't conclude that because after doing the appropriate controls, we only find that Y and Z differ."

The existence of Y and Z differences is itself sufficient to justify the language in the headline. What the authors are pointing out is that there are some obvious other variables to check, and they checked them, but their measurements weren't precise enough to detect differences in all of them.

> Have 10 rastafarie influenced people in the group and sure you will notice difference in the speech pattern.

But obviously this is not what they did. Again, this fails the basic sniff test of whether your criticism uses concepts more difficult than day 1 of statistics 101.

Yes it is possible that the cannabis sample is biased in some way. But the point is it's not biased in any obvious way. The same is true of any scientific study. All of Newtonian physics was biased against objects moving near light speed. That doesn't make it absurd or bad, it just means you had to keep measuring things until you found out what the bias was.

> And difference does not necessarily mean "worse".

Sure, but in this case it does. Intensity was decreased and the speech was more effortful.

> And of course, how much the "recreational use" of the person involved was.

"the researchers recruited people who reported low-to-moderate cannabis use" according to https://www.psypost.org/2021/09/cannabis-use-linked-to-subtl....

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#72
post #49
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the sort of response that makes me wonder: dude, what have you been smoking? Let's start with the whole notion of organizing our society based on some perceived need to compete with a country half the world away. That's the sort of paranoia combined with hazy connections that I'd expect from somebody who was a bad kind of high. And then there's the concern about addiction. Marijuana is way down the list of ad…

> And let's not forget sugar, the white powder that causes enormous medical harm and that whole industries work to hook our children on!!1! > Jokes aside You don't think sugar causes enormous medical harm, or that the industry is geared towards addiction of their users? Walk into any supermarket, it's everywhere. It's even in wide display in the checkout area, their last chance before you leave, along with cigarettes…

I would zero sleep about sugar additive restrictions. Almost the only sugar I get is from a banana a day.

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#73
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean rappers who are likely faking their drug use as they often do with their use of firearms, expensive jewellery and cars.

You think rappers are faking smoking weed?

Some people definitely believe that because they've had bad experiences with weed (paranoia etc), it's not a fun drug.

Too many people are getting ultra-stoned instead of enjoying it like you would half a bottle of wine.

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#74
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically no acoustical difference, except in perceived effort. On the data points measured. It's easy to observe things like "heavy cannabis users tend to have flat affect," but very difficult to translate "flat affect" into something measurable. Look at the way that Alex Grey or Terence McKenna talk. There is clearly something going on there, regardless of our ability to measure it.

It’s hard to separate the effect of culture. A lot of cannabis users have an affinity for the cannabis sub-culture, or with related ones like the hippie/hipster cultures that have many shared speech patterns. You might see similar results analyzing the speech of surfers, pilots, sorority members, etc.

I moved to Hollywood, CA from Rockford, IL to live with my father when I was 14 years old. When I started school at the end of Summer there my mid-western accent really stood out and I took quite a bit of ribbing over that. The kids there called me a "Hillbilly" because of my accent. But down in Texas, where I spent a summer a few years before that kids there called me a "Yankee" based on my accent.

But what stood out to me in Hollywood was how many "cliques" there were there. One of the first things kids there told me is I had to join one. They said I could choose from "BMX'ers, Surfers, Skateboarders, Freaks, Motocrossers, Bikers, Stoners" and probably a few others.

Each of those groups had their own phrases and very distinct accents and you had to talk and dress like them to be a part of that clique.

So, I think one could easily conclude the same thing about speech for skateboarders as pot smokers or any other social clique. But I don't think you could detect that influence with my speech, even though I've smoked weed since before I moved to Hollywood 48 years ago. You almost certainly could detect I'm from the mid-west though.

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#76
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to separate the effect of culture. A lot of cannabis users have an affinity for the cannabis sub-culture, or with related ones like the hippie/hipster cultures that have many shared speech patterns. You might see similar results analyzing the speech of surfers, pilots, sorority members, etc.

Try to remember that if you hear a pilot meowing.

[deleted]

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#77
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sample size was also 31 users, 40 controls. This really isn't a meaningful result.

I did not read the results, but this definitely depends on the effect size and the variance of whatever they are studying. If 31 people were raised from the dead, for example, it's plenty of sample size.

With such a small sample size, formal methods break down. The sample could be biased. In fact, it's almost guaranteed. The ability to p-hack (even inadvertently) is extremely high. Publication bias is also practically guaranteed. These kinds of issues void significance to a reasonably high degree.

At these kinds of sample sizes, the biggest issues are not going to be included or visible in the study. Unless the reported significance is extremely high, it's not meaningful.

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#78
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sample size was also 31 users, 40 controls. This really isn't a meaningful result.

I don't really participate in scientific literature or journals, but I see a lot of notes in HN around papers that appear to be overblowing the significance of their findings. Is there a way for researchers to publish 'interesting observations' as just that, something that they measured that may or may not be noteworthy but felt worth sharing with the broader community?

It's not really something researchers can control. I was commenting on the news release, and it being posted on Hacker News, because that's more of an issue.

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#79

Scooby-Doo

ayyyy cmong mang

Not sure why I got flagged for mentioning Scooby-Doo. The censors have no sense of humour. Shaggy spoke like a stoner and got munchies all the time.

"Older teenagers and adults have admitted to enjoying Scooby-Doo because of presumed subversive themes which involve theories of drug use and sexuality, in particular that Shaggy is assumed to be a user of cannabis"

-- from wikipedia

Re: Adults with history of recreational cannabis use have altered speech production

#80
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean rappers who are likely faking their drug use as they often do with their use of firearms, expensive jewellery and cars.

You think rappers are faking smoking weed?

Faking is probably the wrong word. Just bragging about doing things they don't actually do.
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