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Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#91

Post by paulkrush »

I guess we live on the shoulders of nastiness and things get better. So TEL was part of our boot sequence. What nastiness are we subjecting ourselves to today?

BTW: The guy that invented TEL also invented CFCs! See Thomas Midgley Jr: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.

This guy who invents awesome working chemicals that are tragically bad for people on a worldwide scale manages to exit life dues to his own inventions, unrelated to chemistry... Kind of Ironic! Thomas Midgley, Jr. (1889–1944) was an American engineer and chemist who contracted polio at age 51, leaving him severely disabled. He devised an elaborate system of ropes and pulleys to help others lift him from bed. He became accidentally entangled in the ropes and died of strangulation at the age of 55. However, he is better known for two of his other inventions: the tetraethyl lead (TEL) additive to gasoline, and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs).

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#92

Post by ohazi »

photochemsyn wrote: post #86

Pure gasoline is not that great of a motor fuel because it knocks (explodes when it's not supposed to during the internal combustion engine cycle). This is a major problem with high-compression airplane engines. However, tetra-ethyl-lead (think one lead atom bonded to four ethanols minus the oxygen atoms) was never necessary to combat the problem. Ethanol's anti-knock properties at a blend of 85% gasoline 15% ethanol…

> In the long run though, electric airplanes look far more attractive for the short-haul prop-driven world.

In the interim, the Rotax 912/914 series is a nice, modern, reliable powerplant for smaller/lighter airplanes that will happily burn autogas.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#93

Post by stjohnswarts »

sonthonax wrote: post #23
nso95 wrote: post #7

Gasoline is poison in general though

Refined oils aren't that poisonous. You could probably drink a gulp of pure octane and suffer no more than alcohol like effects and an upset stomach.

Lol no you will throw up everything in your stomach violently until it is completely empty and go to ER mostly likely. Then the doctor will have you stick around for a few hours and make sure you are okay and let you sleep off the headache. Ask me how I know (I was stupid and 10 and trying to siphon gas for my mini motorcycle for the first time, DM for me more for more details).

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#94

Post by pyrale »

air7 wrote: post #6

> The most compelling option was actually ethanol. But from the perspective of GM, Kitman wrote, ethanol wasn’t an option. It couldn’t be patented and GM couldn’t control its production. And oil companies like Du Pont "hated it," he wrote, perceiving it to be a threat to their control of the internal combustion engine. I'm generally an avid beliver in free markets as an agent for positive change, so these types of "r…

> Perhaps the government should open companies [...] that are good for the people but bad for business?

Perhaps the government should close companies that are good for business but bad for the people instead.

In France after WW2, the companies that had participated in the German war effort, or to collaborate were simply confistated. When I see this kind of revelation, which show a complete breakage of corporate oversight and an evaporation of personal responsibility, I wonder whether the easiest solution may be to void existing stocks, have the government take over the board and re-auction the company once the management structure has been cleared.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#95

Post by HPsquared »

air7 wrote: post #6

> The most compelling option was actually ethanol. But from the perspective of GM, Kitman wrote, ethanol wasn’t an option. It couldn’t be patented and GM couldn’t control its production. And oil companies like Du Pont "hated it," he wrote, perceiving it to be a threat to their control of the internal combustion engine. I'm generally an avid beliver in free markets as an agent for positive change, so these types of "r…

Removal of the patent system would be the "free market purist" answer to this one. Though ethanol already wasn't patented, hmm.... I can only assume the leaded fuel was cheaper.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#96

Post by kennywinker »

kube-system wrote: post #60
laurent92 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patents, but also copyright on software. We gain nothing by rewriting the software every time, OSS should be the default. Same for music. It’s more controversial but Spotify is monetizing convenience, not music, which itself is available for free on P2P.

I hear this frequently, but I don’t think it will do what many people think it would. Part of the power of FOSS is that it often leans on copyright to compel sharing. But, in the absence of copyright, why wouldn’t capitalistic powers simply stop sharing their code?

I think the gp post was not suggesting “get rid of copyright and leave oss unprotected” - by “OSS should be the default” i read that it should continue to be protected while copyright is removed. It would not be hard for new laws to enshrine + protect OSS licenses

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#97

Post by wpietri »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #83
ryandrake wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see a system where, while in office, a representative's income is hard capped at the median income (or some multiplier of median) of the people they represent. This could apply to the president, too.

One could argue that such a policy actually just ends up incentivizing politicians to accept bribes. Then again, it isn't like the current salary of a congressman seems to be preventing that anyway.

Exactly. They should be able to live comfortably, so that they don't have to take bribes to survive. But wealth inequality in the US is so large that we can't pay them enough so they won't feel like they have to keep up with the joneses. If we made the salary, say, $10m/year we'd get the problem of totally unqualified loons pursuing the job and doing anything to keep it just because they wanted the money. So I think N times the median where N is between 1 and 10 is about the best we can do.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#98

Post by BurningFrog »

bmitc wrote: post #64
Symmetry wrote: post #3

I've got a sneaking suspicion we ought to go through everything else Thomas MIdgley Jr. invented and ban it, just to be sure. Leaded gas, CFCs, and the contraption he killed himself with is a worrying pattern. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr .

> However, within the first two months of its operation, the new plant was plagued by more cases of lead poisoning, hallucinations, insanity, and five deaths. > On October 30, 1924, Midgley participated in a press conference to demonstrate the apparent safety of TEL, in which he poured TEL over his hands, placed a bottle of the chemical under his nose, and inhaled its vapor for 60 seconds, declaring that he could do…

I think that proves he really believed what he was saying!

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#99

Post by azinman2 »

> A significant body of research links lead exposure in children to violent crime, he writes.

I thought this was actually correlation vs causation, and it’s been shown that the methods that keep citing this aren’t very good but it’s out in the zeitgeist anyway so everyone keeps citing the same discredited work?

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#100

Post by Aloha »

bleachedsleet wrote: post #89
consumer451 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s finally over. > After more than three decades of research and development, general aviation finally has an approved unleaded 100-octane fuel. https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/gami-awarded-long-awaite...

It will be over, but it’s not over yet. Your link says that it will both take a while for it to come to market and also be more expensive to produce…an expense that will likely be balked at by the airlines until forced to use it at which point it will be the customers that pay.

Airlines (outside of bush planes) are not using AvGas in any substantive quantity, and have not been since the early 60's. The amount of AvGas used a year is dwarfed (several times over) by the amount of Jet Fuel (Jet A does not have TEL in it).

AvGas (which uses TEL) is used by general aviation exclusively.

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