El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so • Hacker News Board

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#391

Post by simiones » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:34 PM UTC

topranks wrote: post #381

simiones wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do off-chain transactions like Lightning have to do with the transaction costs of the blockchain itself? We can trade bitcoin over HN comments, that doesn't mean that the bitcoin blockchain is involved in our trade. The whole discussion is about the Bitcoin blockchain itself. Altcoins, lightning, payment apps etc are all entirely irrelevant to this point. The bitcoin blockchain as it exists today has a pretty we…

I hear where you are coming from. But changing the blocksize is just a software change. It doesn't require outlay on a "bigger engine", or any new engineering. The "existing bitcoin network" could switch to it with a 1 line change in the code. So it's not quite the same as some of your examples.

> just a software change

It's not "just" a software change. It's a huge political and organizational issue. It has been proposed and agreed and disagreed and fought over for many years, with no plausible change in site.

Turns out, changing fundamental limits of a truly distributed system is actually very hard. True, not entirely for engineering reasons, but that makes it even worse - engineering can in principle be solved, people problems can be forever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem#Bl...

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#392

Post by bubersson » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

yebyen wrote: post #384

el-salvador wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a screenshot I earlier today, McD El Salvador is using Opennode.com for Bitcoin payments.

I'm hearing reports (unsubstantiated, but reports) that Chivo is built on "a partition" of lightning and that it will be difficult for people who want to get their money out. I don't know enough about lightning to dispute it, but it would seem these reports about Opennode and McDonalds are in conflict with those reports. Do you have any local color or stories to add? I'm interested in what they actually are technical…

Chivo is a "custodial" wallet, so Chivo is in charge of the funds and can block sending those anywhere if they want. From the current reports the $30 needs to be send to another Chivo to be able to spend it on whatever. After this initial back and forth, it's spendable anywhere.

Chivo has just usual Lightning node as any other, you can follow it publicly here: https://amboss.space/node/02f72978d40efeffca537139ad6ac9f099... and you can see that they have direct channels with IBEX and others, so payment to many businesses from Chivo can literally be done with 0 sats fee. IBEX then has channel with OpenNode, so when paying to McDonalds there's a chance that IBEX will take some fee.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#393

Post by ajkdhcb2 » Sun, Sep 12, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

simiones wrote: post #379

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what the lightning network is? It changes all of these relationships, and it is key to what we are talking about, but you didnt mention it in this comment. Separately to the lightning network, the security (hashrate, energy usage) is still not directly linked to the number of on-chain transactions that are processed. You can compute "a practical energy/block" specifically for bitcoin but it does not trans…

What do off-chain transactions like Lightning have to do with the transaction costs of the blockchain itself? We can trade bitcoin over HN comments, that doesn't mean that the bitcoin blockchain is involved in our trade. The whole discussion is about the Bitcoin blockchain itself. Altcoins, lightning, payment apps etc are all entirely irrelevant to this point. The bitcoin blockchain as it exists today has a pretty we…

The block reward will continue to repeatedly halve over time until it reaches zero and dramatically decreases the incentive to mine. That requires no changes.

>"Why can't my car do 600km/h, it can only do 200km/h?" "Nothing is stopping it. Board a maglev train and you can do far more than 200 km/h."

Going by this analogy, you are commenting on an article about maglev trains. The article is about lightning network transactions. So you've gone completely off-topic? Why even talk about "transaction costs of the blockchain itself" if you think lightning transactions arent bitcoin transactions?

>What do off-chain transactions like Lightning have to do with the transaction costs of the blockchain itself?

Facilitating off-chain transactions lowers demand for on-chain transactions. Off-chain transactions arent possible without the underlying blockchain, yet they can fulfill the use-case of small bitcoin transactions. You can't separate the two.

>All sorts of things could change this - changes in the protocol to allow bigger blocks, changes in the hashrate that most miners are willing to invest, changes in mining hardware efficiency etc. But what you are claiming...

Back up the comment chain you were arguing that changing electricity prices etc would not affect the energy usage... I think you have changed what you are arguing about. Previously you disagreed with this:

"Bitcoin use and mining power are completely uncorrelated. By mining bitcoins, your earn as much as the computational fraction you are representing. So, indeed, there was a race to more and more mining power in the recent years but it can completely be reversed. For example if electricity prices rises."

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#394

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