281–290 of 460 posts
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Drunk driving is very illegal. If we could identify unvaccinated people who infected others and punish that with jail time, would you be happy about that?
Would you also jail the folks ho were vaccinated but still infected others?
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> pushing for more vaccines will change the situation in any way that makes you happy. Given that even highly-vaccinated localities like Iceland (74% vaccinated) keep seeing waves of COVID cases and that COVID waves peak and decline without countries achieving the 90% rate vaccine proponents suggest as the threshold for herd immunity, we have to begin seriously questioning the public health case for mandatory univers…
Vaccines cut severity of disease and thus the societal burden of infection. While I agree these measures are potentially draconian it's wrong to say they convey no benefit.
Problem is that the emergency authorization means that we don't yet know what the cost is aside from the adverse reactions. The latter are described as 'rare' by journalists who prefer that term to quoting freely available data which changes week by week as in the case of boys who we now know suffer x6 risk of myocarditis than the same risk if they contract Covid. Is there a further risk down the road? A number of peer-reviewed papers have pointed out that this cannot be ruled out. When the papers dutifully write 'very unlikely' we know we're looking at a lottery with unknown odds.
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Yeah, again this is a great talking point for those who are enjoying their newfound power, but unfortunately for them (and fortunately for the inhabitants of this country!) the numbers do not bare this out: https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/hospitalization-utiliza... Do you know of a hospital system that’s overloaded in the way you are worried about? I’ve seen plenty of bloggers who talk about this, but they never…
Idaho has already implemented crisis standards of care: https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/idaho-activates-cris... And is absolutely overwhelmed. It seems incredibly disingenuous to only consider some random state that's doing well and ignore those doing poorly.
https://rationalground.com/hospital-and-icu-capacity-dashboa...
Also, if you go back in look for headlines of hospitals being overwhelmed, you will see they exist for the flu for almost every year as well.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Hospitals-overwhe...
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Except that it is. They were already able to distribute the product under EUA. The push for 'full approval' was entirely political. What's the bar for full approval? Whatever the FDA says it is. Usually that includes convening the advisory committee. That didn't happen. Recently, 3 members resigned from said committee. While these resignations weren't about the vaccines, they were about a lack of trust in FDA (interi…
People avoiding vaccination and thus dying because the FDA hasn’t done full approval is more than a political issue. It’s a real heath issue and exactly the kind of public health problem the FDA is concerned with. The general public doesn’t understand that expedited approval was a well understood category years before COVID and designed exactly for situations like this. Check the way back machine of your feeling para…
Who is we? We never received the raw trial data. The data that the general public does have access to, while very flawed, says these vaccines are the most deadly ever to be widely administered.
> People avoiding vaccination and thus dying because the FDA hasn’t done full approval is more than a political issue. It’s a real heath issue and exactly the kind of public health problem the FDA is concerned with.
People mistook the desire for long term safety studies and completion of phase 3 clinical trials as "FDA approval." The two things were previously synonymous, at least to the lay person. FDA approval was merely a proxy, now it's meaningless.
> The general public doesn’t understand
The general public can't add 2 fractions, what they think is irrelevant.
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Don't forget what makes COVID19 so insidious: without testing, it takes time before an infected contagious person shows symptoms. By the time they decide to stay off public spaces, they have already potentially spread the virus. With the common flu, you know almost instantly so you stay home to recover. Fat people know their condition and it's their choice to eat fast food anyway. And obesity is also non contagious.
The only people they would need to protect are other unvaccinated people who have made the choice to take whatever risk there is in going unvaccinated. The choice to not be vaccinated involves knowing that you may contact the virus from someone else and may become very ill or die. Attempting to protect someone by taking away their ability to make that choice is equivalent to removing the option to eat enough food to…
We do that to obese people already. It's called a diet. Some of them even go farther than mere "prescriptions" but with psychological tricks to keep people on track. Also, really, comparing obesity to COVID19 is an apples to oranges thing. Obesity is not even viral.
What you're missing is that in all these measures that seem so controversial (lockdowns, vaccination campaigns) preserving an individual's life/health is secondary to the main goal, a means to an end. The main goal is to not overwhelm the public healthcare infra.
No one cares if you want to go to a concert when you're ill but when that illness has the potential to strain public health resources, then that's a different story entirely.
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Clearly only true solution to stop spread is permanent lockdown. And ban bars, restaurants, events and any sort of gatherings forever. I believe all pro-vaccine people already agree that no sacrifice of freedoms is too big for greater good. After all, why wouldn't they support keeping the vulnerable safe? Cost is only small sacrifice in bodily autonomy and clearly most effective thing to do.
I didn't have the vaccine for the greater good. I had it because, for me, the risk vs reward balance was tilted that way. I have high blood pressure and I'm borderline diabetic. Not much of a choice for me. Why would someone that is healthy risk ending up like that dead BBC presenter and leave their family behind for complete strangers? Who gives you(or anyone) the right to decide what risks they should take and that…
If what you're saying is true and the vaccine itself is even more dangerous, the internet should be overflowing with countlesss stories of thousands of vaccine-induced deaths every single day. Instead, it's overflowing with stories of folks like your mother dying after spending weeks in complete agony not able to breathe on their own.
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Those who are downvoting this are being blatantly disingenuous. Tobacco alone kills over 480,000 people per year in the US. There is a very strong case for banning it if your fundamental concern is the health of others and the upkeep of the health system. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal... Alcohol kills another 95,000 per year in the US https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-alcoh…
Let's start with the simplest: tobacco. There is no way to make it disappear, you can only make it illegal. Our experiments with making other addictive drugs illegal had been a complete failure, I doubt you could even find convincing research that shows that making them illegal has led to less deaths due to them. Whereas vaccine passports appear to actually work. That is a major difference.
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Idaho has already implemented crisis standards of care: https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/idaho-activates-cris... And is absolutely overwhelmed. It seems incredibly disingenuous to only consider some random state that's doing well and ignore those doing poorly.
Idaho doesn't seem to be in trouble based on the capacity dashboard. https://rationalground.com/hospital-and-icu-capacity-dashboa... Also, if you go back in look for headlines of hospitals being overwhelmed, you will see they exist for the flu for almost every year as well. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Hospitals-overwhe...
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/idaho.division.of.pub...
And Idaho is absolutely overwhelmed. In past flu seasons they have not moved to crisis standards of care, I don't even see Idaho in the article you linked so I'm not sure what relevance it has here. Are you claiming the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare is unaware of their own ICU utilization status?
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Vaccines cut severity of disease and thus the societal burden of infection. While I agree these measures are potentially draconian it's wrong to say they convey no benefit.
Very true. Vaccines have helped in great measure. OTOH, there are other forces at play. The very existence of covid waves that come and recede much faster than the increase in the vaccination rate should be an indication that vaccines, while very helpful, are not the end all of covid pushback mechanisms. For example in US delta is receding after a couple months of mayhem. R is estimated https://covidestim.org . There…
An intact hospital / critical care system.
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Thanks for the Covid misinformation, buddy! Thanks in part to your diligent work, many people will get sick and die! Give yourself a pay on the back! And whatever you do, suppress this: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...
> For people who are vaccinated and still get infected (i.e., “breakthrough infections”), there is a risk of transmission to others. Not sure why you’d want to suppress that truth. It’s just a little vague on how big the chances are.