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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

241–250 of 460 posts

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pfizer vaccine has already received full FDA approval, and Moderna is expected to get it shortly.

While this is technically true, it's only because the FDA abandoned all previous procedure for full approval.

Expedited approval in the middle of a pandemic is not the same as "abandoning all previous procedure".

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#242

Reading threads like this, I get the sense that the very notion of civil liberties is completely foreign to vaccine fans.

I get the sense that people like police states that are pointed at other people, not themselves.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#243
post #143

Reading threads like this, I get the sense that the very notion of civil liberties is completely foreign to vaccine fans.

The downward spiral has been observed for long time now. Civil liberties aren't really important unless it's some nebulous discriminated class... Freedom of speech is just about government, not general civil liberty. Gun rights were relevant are not important. And so on...

Gun rights aren't important. We don't have guns

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#244
post #239
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fears that sound rational but are completely in the realm of conspiracy theory. Sadly these fears in the UK are well-founded: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Hey_organs_scandal * https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/missing... There were quite a few other similar scandals, particularly in England. The medical profession in this country, for a very long time, has had a remarkable contempt for t…

Organ donation is now opt-out in the UK.

ah wow, thanks, i see - from last year. Opt-out here: https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/register-your-decision/do-n...

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#245
post #39

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it. We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Those IDs are not meant to 1) show your medical history which is a protected right and 2) is used as a way to coerce a medical intervention which is against free and informed consent. Forcing medical interventions in the name of the public good has always degenerated in the worse atrocities and abuses in history.

> Forcing medical interventions in the name of the public good has always degenerated in the worse atrocities and abuses in history.

Then you have examples of the "worst atrocities and abuses in history" that were due to schools requiring vaccinations?

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> barring new variants I didn't know this was an option. How do we go about doing it?

That's not what barring means. The statement is contingent on there not being new variants.

Which is, let's face it, extremely unlikely - and made even more so by the "laissez-faire" attitude.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pfizer vaccine has already received full FDA approval, and Moderna is expected to get it shortly.

Exactly, I'm just pointing out that there were (and still are in my opinion) valid scientific and rational thinking for being hesitant of getting the vaccine.

> valid scientific and rational thinking for being hesitant of getting the vaccine.

Care to expand what these "scientific" reasons are?

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#248

The thing that people seem to be ignoring in all of this is that people like having power. The vaccines are helpful to the recipient, but unless you are successful at completely shutting down travel to the rest of the world: not really that helpful to the people who haven't taken them. In fact, there is an argument for how over-vaccinating will be harmful to the unvaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you can still get a…

> The graph here you are looking for is the one that shows the percentage of staffed beds and icu beds occupied. Notice that it is entirely flat.

So why did hospitals declare that they have no ICU beds available and that they are sending patients out of state?

> At least 53 Texas hospitals have no available ICU capacity, according to numbers reported to the federal government during the week ending Aug. 5. In Austin, five hospitals were at or above 90% of their ICU capacity during the same period, with two reporting no available ICU beds

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/10/coronavirus-texas-ho...

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#249
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's the point of that? Aren't the verification apps going to check the issuer?

Verification apps should check the issuer. But you can issue and sign your own vaccine codes trivially. Some apps will go a step further to check that the issuer is “trusted.” For example, there is a good list of issuers considered trusted here: https://github.com/the-commons-project/vci-directory/blob/ma... The most popular reader app I know of will mark issuers that are not on this list as “Partially-verified.” I’m…

This seems odd given that EU+CH did implement things properly wrt to cryto and trusted certs, but yes I guess there's a possibility that UK messed it up :)

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#250
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think alcohol might be even more dangerous to others than being unvaccinated. Violent drug users are well known ending up in fights and even causing death or permanent damage when they attack randomly at others during night. Or even kill them sometimes. So I think we should apply the new standard to it and ban it totally.

And we have laws to hold people accountable when under the influence, they do something bad and affect someone else. That’s a fantastic idea: Start holding the unvaccinated criminally responsible, if they’re the likely point of infection for someone else. Thanks for the idea.

Vaccinated people also spread covid. The #1 population-level defense against infection disease is self-isolation on symptoms onset. It is possible that vaccinated people spread covid more aggressively than unvaccinated, because the vaccines dull the symptoms to a point where they don't trigger the 'stay at home' signal anymore.
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