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25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

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Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#41
post #15

> I just learned from a colleague and it was confirmed by every student I asked, that 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7X/week (not prescribed). And 5-10% do the same w/Modafinil or Armodafanil; 30-35% of students are on amphetamine Modafinil isn't an amphetamine. Source is seemingly "anecdata." And this was posted on Twitter. Probably not much to see here other than some outrage for attention.

>Modafinil isn't an amphetamine. The last time I went on a modafinil bender I didn't sleep for a week and ended that with a 12 hour masturbation session involving a lot of blood. That's not really that much different to what happened the one time I did meth, apart from there being a lot less violence. Modafinil should be way more regulated than it is.

That sounds like an extreme outlier. I've never heard of anyone taking modafinil who "goes on a bender", or is particularly drawn to masturbation while using it. There's no "high". If you didn't sleep for a week and masturbated for 12 hours, you might have gotten something else and were told that it's modafinil.

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#42

> I just learned from a colleague and it was confirmed by every student I asked, that 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7X/week (not prescribed). And 5-10% do the same w/Modafinil or Armodafanil; 30-35% of students are on amphetamine Modafinil isn't an amphetamine. Source is seemingly "anecdata." And this was posted on Twitter. Probably not much to see here other than some outrage for attention.

> Modafinil isn't an amphetamine.

That's not what he said. The different responses he gave to the questions asked on his tweet are actually interesting, you might have a look.

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#43

Apparently we have constructed a society in which everyone, including children, has to spend all day doing things they can't care about without pharmaceutical help. When this last happened under the Qin dynasty, it ended in the Taiping Rebellion, and produced nothing of value except those little canned oranges. I hear pornographic performers are on Viagra too. Meanwhile nobody actually has children, and CO2 PPM keeps…

Nobody planned this. It’s the result of emergent behavior in complex systems and feedback loops.

We are still absolutely at the mercy of such forces. They rule us. We sort of understand them (game theory, complexity, evolutionary dynamics) but have yet to come up with any reliable way of controlling them. Totalitarian government force is the best we can do, and it comes with equally large downsides and is itself subject to the same forces over time. It’s a very clunky primitive instrument.

I feel like we will not truly become an intelligent species until we are able to flip the table on the complex system in which we are embedded. Until then we are merely very clever animals. True intelligence has yet to evolve on this planet.

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#44

Apparently we have constructed a society in which everyone, including children, has to spend all day doing things they can't care about without pharmaceutical help. When this last happened under the Qin dynasty, it ended in the Taiping Rebellion, and produced nothing of value except those little canned oranges. I hear pornographic performers are on Viagra too. Meanwhile nobody actually has children, and CO2 PPM keeps…

>... and produced nothing of value except those little canned oranges.

What?

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#45
post #5

Could anyone here tell us about their experience with "study drugs"? When did this start to become a phenomenon, because it certainly was not in the time and place I studied.

I have ADHD, I'm prescribed Concerta (which is a delay-released form of Ritalin). Because it's a gradual release, that probably affects my experiences.

But generally, the noticeable effects for me are very subtle, I've joked before that if someone swapped out my drugs with a placebo, I wouldn't be able to immediately tell. It doesn't help me at all with my time blindness, it doesn't improve my memory (that I can tell). And (contrary to other people's experiences) it doesn't even really help me avoid getting distracted (for example, I'm on HN right now). But what it does help me with is starting tasks and getting over executive dysfunction.

With my experiences with ADHD, there's this huge gulf between wanting to do something and actually doing it. So what I notice when I'm on Concerta is that it lessens that gulf. So if I tell myself to go put clothes in the dryer, then I actually go put clothes in the dryer, it's not as much of a monumental multi-step effort of "stand up, put on your shoes, find the laundry room key, walk out the door."

This could be related to the time-release, it could be that people taking this in non-prescribed settings are taking much higher dosages, it could be an individual thing? But I'm always a little weirded out by the idea of people getting addicted to this stuff, because I have to set timers and actively remind myself to take it. It doesn't make me feel wired or unable to sleep or constantly focused. When I started taking Concerta, I spent multiple months with my psychiatrist just tracking day-to-day tasks like how often I ate, whether or not I was brushing my teeth -- because without the charts I didn't feel confident that it wasn't just a placebo effect, I needed to track data to know for sure that anything was even happening.

I'm assuming that people using unprescribed Ritalin are taking it in different ways and in higher dosages. But... I mean, it's not going to make you smarter, at most it seems like it's going to make you more focused on something? But speaking as someone who is constantly hyperfocusing and hyperfixating on things, there are a nontrivial number of college/life tasks where hyperfixation is not helpful and where it would be convenient to be able to turn that behavior off. I spend a lot of time trying to manage hyperfixations, they can be beneficial but they're not universally good.

But I do know that Ritalin/Adderall affects different people differently. Back when I was in college I was not aware of people doing stuff like this as a norm, but I don't know how I would have known about it, so maybe it was happening in other circles.

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#46
post #27

For anyone who cares, here are the official statistics. > Among U.S. adults, 6.6% (annual average) used prescription stimulants overall; 4.5% used without misuse, 1.9% misused without use disorders, and 0.2% had use disorders. [0] With that as a prior, this anecdata seems far off unless there's something horribly wrong at Stanford. Practically, I'm not sure where kids are getting this stuff to supply amphetamine at a…

Right from the conclusion of the article that you linked:

> Patients who are using their medication for cognitive enhancement or diverting their medication to others present a high risk.

I think the Standford population do not fit with the results of your study (that look at the US population in general).

These people ARE using these drugs for cognitive enhancement. Now get back to the article conclusion.

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#47
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Modafinil isn't an amphetamine. Yeah, it isn't. It's a nootropic like caffeine. Similar effects, lasts longer, doesn't create a dependence. It's arguably better than caffeine, and I can understand its use. Amphetamine being popular like that is, however, insanity.

It lasts too long for me. I would take it early in the morning, and I'd still be wired at 2am the following night, unable to sleep. Made it unusable.

Did you have the experience with Modafinil or Armodafinil? Armoda is meant to last longer; probably too long for some people to take regularly. It's also more anxiety-inducing, so despite being the 'older' variant, moda might be the better choice for a lot of people.

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you about my experience with modafinil / armodafinil. For the record, I'm 40. I've never been diagnosed with anything, and I wasn't terrible in school, but I was never really able to concentrate for too long. I kind of tumbled into IT after school and it worked for me, if I got 2 hours of concentrated work in per day, I'd get by. A friend of mine had taken modafinil and recommended it to me like three year…

Have you tried adrafinil at any point, or any other nootropic drugs?

Pretty much only modafinil and then armodafinil. I've taken piracetam for a while (because hey, why not, maybe it does something), but didn't get any noticeable effect. The same goes for supplements, no noticeable effect.

I'm far from an expert on any of this. I found something that works very well for me, but I'm not making any claims that it'll work for anyone else. I personally know two others who take modafinil, and while there's some overlap in our experiences, they don't have the same effects I do (they do have effects though, and both take it occasionally, but not regularly).

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#49
post #40
post #27

For anyone who cares, here are the official statistics. > Among U.S. adults, 6.6% (annual average) used prescription stimulants overall; 4.5% used without misuse, 1.9% misused without use disorders, and 0.2% had use disorders. [0] With that as a prior, this anecdata seems far off unless there's something horribly wrong at Stanford. Practically, I'm not sure where kids are getting this stuff to supply amphetamine at a…

Go into a college library around finals week and you will see just how over prescribed and readily available these drugs are.

I saw zero prescription stimulent usage/availability during my college education. Granted, I wasn't hanging out at the library too often but if it was really that common that I'd have seen it at least once in the few years I was there. Maybe I was just super unaware.

Re: 25% of students age 16-32 take Adderall 1-7 times per week, not prescribed

#50
post #8

This figure provided is wholly anecdotal and pretty much worthless if not to bring the topic in question. However, it sure is concerning that many consider abusing prescription drugs with possibly severe, long lasting side effects to attempt to improve studying effectiveness (or because of self diagnosed ADHD and the likes..). It may become another drug epidemic, if it's not too late already. Misinformation and dubio…

> However, it sure is concerning that many consider abusing prescription drugs with possibly severe, long lasting side effects to attempt to improve studying effectiveness Not getting through an education and being saddled with a heavy student debt without a well paying job is an extremely severe, extremely long lasting and quite horrible at times life destroying side effect of not doing everything the two people nex…

That's absolutely true. Academia and education in general is a nonforgiving environment for many people, requires many sacrifices to get through (more in some countries than others) and is generally socially expected to participate in for a "worthwhile" career in life. Needless to say, it's unfortunate that some need — or believe they need — to self-administer drugs in general. The main, root issue has not been addressed in years. I suppose some more people getting ill or developing issues won't change that.
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