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Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

nytimes.com

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Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#141

Post by grapist420 »

winocm wrote: post #91
heavyset_go wrote: post #2

Antipsychotics are not something to be handed out like candy. They have serious, sometimes permanent and sometimes fatal, side effects in anyone of any age. The article notes how that class of medication increases mortality in elderly people in particular. The fact that some people were prescribed haloperidol as the first line of treatment instead of a newer, safer antipsychotics also blows my mind. I'm terrified of…

Heh, yes. I developed tardive dyskinesia from use of antipsychotics over a period of 8 months. It's been over 6 years since I've taken them, but it still has not gotten any better... You can still develop TD regardless of the drug, given that pretty much any dopamine antagonist can cause it in the long term.

:( I recognize you from Twitter, that’s sad...

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#142

Post by kbenson »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #113
BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

> it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

Not necessarily does not mean never, so be careful of a claim like that, and maybe back it up. I have a daughter, now an adult, which Ritalin and/or Adderall provided real benefit. The only thing in question was how to find the right one and right dosage to minimize the side effects )lack of appetite and sometimes stomach aches). The difference was very clear, and was exhibited multiple times. For example when we let her go off it at her request during the middle of her sophomore year in high school, and she went from getting B's and C's to getting flunking a quarter of four of six classes, and then going back to not flunking anything and getting mostly B's by the end of the year when she went back on the medication. This was not an isolated incident, it happened 2-3 times over junior high and high school.

That's the thing about medication. Different people respond to it in different ways. That's why studies look for statistical significance, not "guaranteed to do what it says".

Edit: The language of the original comment has since been softened to no longer imply that's the only or main reason, which I appreciate.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#143

Post by eurasiantiger »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #130
BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

Careful, criticism of the medical industry and concern for your rights is verboten. You will take the drugs the experts tell you to take, and you will like it.

Later, mandatory church attendance will be instated.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#144

Post by robbiep »

msrenee wrote: post #125

I haven't finished the article yet. I got sidetracked by the claim that Haldol is "a powerful sedative." I understand that journalists are neither doctors nor pharmacists, but if you're reporting on a story about medical ethics, maybe know a little bit about drugs, how they work, and what the words you're using mean in a medical context. Haldol is a typical antipsychotic. If the patient has no symptoms that indicate…

Haloperidol is absolutely a powerful sedative (amongst its other effects). This isn’t a misplaced claim or hyperbole, it is used (and I have used it) to sedate agitated patients in hospitals.

I mean, it actually sounds like you don’t really know what you’re talking about. It’s not quite in our ‘take down’ class of drugs (think meth patient in the emergency room) but it sure as hell knocks patients out in IV/IM administration.

Which should definitely not be the administration in aged care, but even in oral form it is used unfortunately in a long term role as a sedative (which is not what it is indicated for), which is basically what the article is about

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#145

Post by eurasiantiger »

quetzlbazaar wrote: post #53
BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

Suicide is offensive to society and many individuals on a deep level, especially of people who do not have a "good reason" (such as a terminal illness). While it may have progressed beyond being a criminal act, it is still taboo enough for alternative and equally good avenues to exist for society to deal with it, in this case, police and physicians empowered by law with the "duty of care" concept. This is of course b…

Suicide is only offensive to the fools who have been brainwashed to believe in a concrete afterlife.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#146

Post by spaetzleesser »

glangdale wrote: post #58
quetzlbazaar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution in my opinion to this problem is to permit euthanasia and for assisted suicide to become culturally accepted as an alternative to a drawn out death of dementia in a care home. The quality of life for many (not all) care home residents who are on these sorts of drug regimens is dire and in reality not entirely for their benefit, as is apparent to everyone including those responsible for oversight like Med…

Speaking from experience, people are not nearly as enthusiastic to make the decision to kill themselves (as dementia sets in) as every likes to imagine that they will be themselves. I have seen multiple cases of people who - in healthy middle age - made bold statements ("just shoot me when I get like that"), who later went on to write documents insisting that "all measures be taken to preserve my life". So not even "…

"More practical would be to accept that we are far better off over-medicating with pain meds to "keep people comfortable" with the implicit idea that it will shorten their lives."

If it's reasonably certain that I will die soon or there is no chance for recovery I would like to try all kinds of drugs like heroin, cocaine and others. Why stay sober?

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#148

Post by hagibborim »

kbenson wrote: post #142
AussieWog93 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Schools too. My mum spent two decades as a primary schol teacher, and it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are, at least in some cases, administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it.

> it's an open secret in that industry that Ritalin and other behavioural drugs are administered for the benefit of the teacher and other students in the class - not necessarily for the child receiving it. Not necessarily does not mean never, so be careful of a claim like that, and maybe back it up. I have a daughter, now an adult, which Ritalin and/or Adderall provided real benefit. The only thing in question was ho…

The phrasing of the poster you're responding to does not discount the experience you're describing. I don't see how they could be more careful.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#149

Post by simfree »

grapist420 wrote: post #135
simfree wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haldol, Benadryl and one other drug are part of the common rotation used by nurses to sedate troublesome patients so they can skate out of handling said patient during their shift. When said patient regains control of their faculties they are often confused and angry as a day is missing from their memory.

Benadryl and Haldol arguably don’t belong in the same sentence at all, considering their ridiculously different effects and profile. You’re right that they’re used though. Is there any reason Haldol should be used like that at all, beyond it already being available as a psych drug? And even if Benadryl isn’t as effective (I dunno) surely something that isn’t as bad in side effects could be found? Many instances of sa…

I only ever saw this B52 trifecta used when untrained nurses from other units had to do a shift staffing the psych ward. Thankfully that particular psych ward was closed down 2 years ago due to repeatedly assigning untrained nurses to work in that department.

The regular nurses who had completed the state mandated training did not usin this combination of drugs on patients.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#150

Post by m0llusk »

BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

When I traveled to the east coast near DC to help take care of my mother in her final years I talked with some people about my work with startups and the tech side projects I was developing and not only did they all think I was completely crazy but I got referred to a psychiatrist who was insistent that I should get started on antipsychotic medications right away.
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