Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#401

Post by NavinF » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #360

NavinF wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Update glibc and everything breaks 2. Update Nvidia drivers and everything breaks 3. 99% of laptops have at least one device with missing or broken drivers. 802.11ac is very old in 2021, but the most popular ac chips still need an out-of-tree driver which will break when you update your kernel. Have fun copying kernel patches from random forums 4. Even the smallest of changes (ex: set display scaling to something…

1) This should not occur. You do not update glibc on a stable desktop environment. If you use rolling release distributions, yes shit will hit the fan (even though proponents/fans of such will deny such 'ever happening to their X years of Arch or w/e usage). 2) Don't use Nvidia; use AMD or Intel with FOSS drivers. I know this sucks if you don't have the option (its a package deal, or you already bought it). (I've onl…

1. Yeah it "should not" happen yet I've experienced it on a relatively sane distro. Btw "Update glibc and everything breaks" is a quote from Linus Torvalds. He's a newcomer on this scene, but he makes some good points: https://youtu.be/5PmHRSeA2c8?t=588

2. No thanks. I'll stick with my RTX 3090 for my personal desktop and 2x2080Ti for each of my servers. We both wish there was another vendor that supported tensorflow with reasonable performance, but you know that's not the world we live in.

3-8: Well you better address them then

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#402

Post by tubby12345 » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

denysvitali wrote: post #299

tubby12345 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

every single FAANG (and many middle tier companies too) distributes macbook pros to its devs.

Just because there is no viable enterprise-ish Linux computer that fits those environments. Sadly :(

Definitely not true since (at least at FB) you can also get an auxiliary laptop (Thinkpad) with Linux (Fedora). Just that no one wants them.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#403

Post by NavinF » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #365

NavinF wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, Nvidia will never let you pass PCIe virtual functions to VMs. They'd rather charge 7x the price for data center GPUs with that capability.

Again: don't buy Nvidia. This is one of the many reasons why you should consider avoiding this brand (for GPUs). I even gave them the benefit of the doubt with their Nvidia Shield (bought two Pro 2020's) only to have them shove me up ads through my throat via a software update.

Again: You don't have a choice.

Which AMD GPUs support VFs? Which ones support ROCm? The older AMD consumer GPUs did, but the newer ones don't. They prefer to charge extra for the data center GPUs just like Nvidia.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#404

Post by NavinF » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

pkphilip wrote: post #342

NavinF wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Update glibc and everything breaks 2. Update Nvidia drivers and everything breaks 3. 99% of laptops have at least one device with missing or broken drivers. 802.11ac is very old in 2021, but the most popular ac chips still need an out-of-tree driver which will break when you update your kernel. Have fun copying kernel patches from random forums 4. Even the smallest of changes (ex: set display scaling to something…

That hasn't been my experience at all - except for the graphics card issue where there is really some work to be done before the specific driver for the card works. For everything else Linux is actually a lot easier to work with than Windows - where you may need to download specific drivers for it to work. As for your comment about config files - the same is the case with Windows where instead of config files, you ma…

I've never had to deal with anything as brittle as xorg.conf on Windows.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#405

Post by e12e » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

Teknoman117 wrote: post #254

Stratoscope wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though our dev environment at work is Ubuntu, I greatly prefer running Windows on my ThinkPad X1 Extreme, because of the superior hardware support for the devices I use. Specifically: • I spend a fair amount of time on Zoom calls (who doesn't?), and I like to use my Apple AirPods so I can move around while we talk. I was never was able to get these or any other Bluetooth headset to work on Ubuntu. They pair only…

To be honest, with the amount of video meetings I have, I invested in a far better audio setup than Bluetooth headset microphone. The amount of meetings I've had where the audio from the other end sounds like the BART announcements is too high... That being said, I know what you mean. However, I'm actually rather annoyed at the headset microphone functionality on windows, because if anything starts using the micropho…

> if anything starts using the microphone, it switches modes and the audio quality goes way, way down.

Funny, I don't see this on windows, which will leave the headphones at high quality (except for when I'm speaking, at which point I don't care that much about audio) - but on Linux I have to set the audio profile for the headset to low quality in order to enable the microphone at all - so all audio out is crap as long as I'm on a call/have the microphone enabled (even muted).

Still waiting for this to improve - but looks like it'll require new hw (new Bluetooth receiver and sender).

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#406

Post by e12e » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

Fanmade wrote: post #399

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems mostly anecdotal, but I've been using Bluetooth headsets and headphones on Linux since around 2008, and most have worked out of the box with no issues. I do remember at the time, windows didn't really work with those Bluetooth headphones, and I actually started bringing my own Linux laptop to work just so I could use my headphones. When it comes to Zoom, I'd say the problem is having to use that crap and n…

It is not true that Ms Teams does not work on Linux. We do have several devs working on Linux (don't know which specific distros though) and it works just fine. There are some annoying pop ups saying "Teams is ready" anytime they get a message and one of them has to switch something about his graphics from time to time to be able share his screen (which has never been a problem problem for anyone else), but I wouldn'…

"just fine" might be a stretch, it's an awful program - but so are most commercial alternatives (slack is marginally better).

But yes, it works as intended on Linux (I use the official snap with Wayland/Ubuntu and even screensharing works).

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#407

Post by e12e » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

NavinF wrote: post #334

raman162 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's missing from the Linux Desktop experience for you? I currently use all three operating systems on a weekly basis, Ubuntu with i3 (a window tiling manager) is my daily driver. Everytime I switch to windows or Mac os, it always feels like a downgrade for me because I can't replicate the tiling experience. The one thing I love about mac, is the trackpad experience, I wish windows and Linux could get to that level…

1. Update glibc and everything breaks 2. Update Nvidia drivers and everything breaks 3. 99% of laptops have at least one device with missing or broken drivers. 802.11ac is very old in 2021, but the most popular ac chips still need an out-of-tree driver which will break when you update your kernel. Have fun copying kernel patches from random forums 4. Even the smallest of changes (ex: set display scaling to something…

1 why/how would you break glibc? This sounds like you're "holding it wrong"? You don't go willy-nilly changing system dlls on windows, do you?

2 yeah, nvidia does not support linux/Foss. It sucks. Buy amd, or use windows.

3 I've not really seen this lately. Ubuntu/canonical does a pretty good and pragmatic job of enabling non-free drivers - but sure, not all vendors care. See 2.

4 not with eg Ubuntu 20.04 lts Wayland. I'm rather positively impressed with the settings app. I'm not all that happy personally with all the dbus/changes that enable this pretty gui - I tend to prefer simple config files. But at any rate - I don't think your point 4 has been true for a while.

5 yes and no? Honestly I think the only config files I'm editing is nvim and vs code. My terminal for example has a perfectly usable gui preferences coupled with a perfectly readable and version controllable config file.

Well and the occasional bash rc tweak.

6 maybe?

7 I think it's more that hw vendors don't care about Linux, so it takes a lot of time for drivers etc to materialize.

8 Hopefully pipewire will kill pulse audio, and this will cease to be the case.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#408

Post by NavinF » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

e12e wrote: post #407

NavinF wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Update glibc and everything breaks 2. Update Nvidia drivers and everything breaks 3. 99% of laptops have at least one device with missing or broken drivers. 802.11ac is very old in 2021, but the most popular ac chips still need an out-of-tree driver which will break when you update your kernel. Have fun copying kernel patches from random forums 4. Even the smallest of changes (ex: set display scaling to something…

1 why/how would you break glibc? This sounds like you're "holding it wrong"? You don't go willy-nilly changing system dlls on windows, do you? 2 yeah, nvidia does not support linux/Foss. It sucks. Buy amd, or use windows. 3 I've not really seen this lately. Ubuntu/canonical does a pretty good and pragmatic job of enabling non-free drivers - but sure, not all vendors care. See 2. 4 not with eg Ubuntu 20.04 lts Wayland…

1. sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade

2. Yeah I'll just trade in my RTX 3090 for something that has half the performance and doesn't support tensorflow

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#409

Post by e12e » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

NavinF wrote: post #408

e12e wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 why/how would you break glibc? This sounds like you're "holding it wrong"? You don't go willy-nilly changing system dlls on windows, do you? 2 yeah, nvidia does not support linux/Foss. It sucks. Buy amd, or use windows. 3 I've not really seen this lately. Ubuntu/canonical does a pretty good and pragmatic job of enabling non-free drivers - but sure, not all vendors care. See 2. 4 not with eg Ubuntu 20.04 lts Wayland…

1. sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade 2. Yeah I'll just trade in my RTX 3090 for something that has half the performance and doesn't support tensorflow

1 when was this? On Ubuntu lts or Debian stable?

2 if a vendor makes good hw, but poor drivers for your os - that really is on the vendor, not the os?

Still, I agree it's frustrating that nvidia is unwilling to commit to Foss/linux.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#410

Post by ComputerGuru » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #135

wvenable wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were amazingly successful -- more successful than should have been thought possible -- but they couldn't overcome the semantic file system differences.

Is this documented anywhere? I’d be interested in reading more

Neither the Windows IO API or even the low-level NTFS APIs map cleanly to POSIX semantics. It means you can’t just forward calls from the subsystem to the IO stack, you need to actively marshal them to and fro. This, in addition to certain operations just being plain more expensive on Windows/NTFS (opening files, creating processes) due to different programming paradigms/approaches just give a very high impedance mismatch that makes performant IO highly unlikely by nature for anything trying to run on top the existing system rather than virtualized.