Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#391

Post by WhyNotHugo » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

Stratoscope wrote: post #244

reilly3000 wrote: post #31

I wonder what Linux exclusive software they are hoping to support. Everything I use in my Ubuntu daily driver has a Windows build or corollary app. I get how ‘you never have to leave Windows’ is a nice thing for their business, but I don’t see this being a reason I would stop dual-booting. The only reason I run windows in the first place is for a few apps, mostly games. Otherwise I really enjoy the bloat-free, ad-fre…

Even though our dev environment at work is Ubuntu, I greatly prefer running Windows on my ThinkPad X1 Extreme, because of the superior hardware support for the devices I use. Specifically: • I spend a fair amount of time on Zoom calls (who doesn't?), and I like to use my Apple AirPods so I can move around while we talk. I was never was able to get these or any other Bluetooth headset to work on Ubuntu. They pair only…

This seems mostly anecdotal, but I've been using Bluetooth headsets and headphones on Linux since around 2008, and most have worked out of the box with no issues.

I do remember at the time, windows didn't really work with those Bluetooth headphones, and I actually started bringing my own Linux laptop to work just so I could use my headphones.

When it comes to Zoom, I'd say the problem is having to use that crap and not the fact that they barely support Linux. MS Teams also won't work on Linux, but it's hard to claim it's an issue on Linux's side. I'd suggest looking at something like Jitsi, which is also encrypted and takes security into consideration.

Ubuntu is a pretty bad example for anything though: they're usually trying to reinvent the wheel and it's very common for things not to work there and work anywhere else. I personally have mixed feeling because they both make Lonux more popular and build good tools, but also give Linux a bad rep at the same time. Maybe give Fedora a shot?

Finally, per-display scaling works fine on Wayland, but won't work on Xorg. I believe Ubuntu still uses the latter.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#392

Post by Dayshine » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

pkphilip wrote: post #342

NavinF wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Update glibc and everything breaks 2. Update Nvidia drivers and everything breaks 3. 99% of laptops have at least one device with missing or broken drivers. 802.11ac is very old in 2021, but the most popular ac chips still need an out-of-tree driver which will break when you update your kernel. Have fun copying kernel patches from random forums 4. Even the smallest of changes (ex: set display scaling to something…

That hasn't been my experience at all - except for the graphics card issue where there is really some work to be done before the specific driver for the card works. For everything else Linux is actually a lot easier to work with than Windows - where you may need to download specific drivers for it to work. As for your comment about config files - the same is the case with Windows where instead of config files, you ma…

> As for your comment about config files - the same is the case with Windows where instead of config files, you may need to tweak registry keys.

This is a pretty bad comparison. Here's a list of things I had to use config files (or terribly documented randomly downloaded CLI apps) for in Ubuntu but have a simple GUI (or just work) in Windows:

- Mounting a network drive

- Adjusting my touchpad behaviour (whether to supress on keyboard entry)

- Restarting my network adapter

- Wipe my SSH credentials

The last time I touched Windows registry was to disable automatic USB device connection, but that's only because I don't have group policy on this machine.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#393

Post by WhyNotHugo » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #389

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you really just need Linux and can skip Windows. FWIW, all this WSL stuff is mostly Microsoft trying to Extend, Embrace and Extinguish Linux.

> It sounds like you really just need Linux and can skip Windows. My point exactly! I've been making that case for a while and I think I'm gaining some traction.

I've had to work with macOS in the past, and I was simply honest about where my time went. If I wasted all day trying to make something basic work in it, I'd just say so in standup.

Eventually, my manager proposed paying for a VMware licence and I could run Linux on that.

I still had to suffer with multiple displays (the macOS host had to detect them before the VM could use them), but I finally stayed getting work done.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#394

Post by moonchrome » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #383

As a WSL user at work, this addresses exactly zero of my problems with running Windows. Windows Defender is still going to randomly spin up and bring my machine to a halt. The Windows Start Menu with its ads is still there. There are still 15 pieces of device driver desktop experience crapware running in the background. The RAT required by our IT department is still resident. Adding GUI support doesn't move the needl…

While I do get the "dirty" feel running Windows and I fully agree that having crapware installed by device drivers is shady - the start menu ads seem to be gone (along with awful tiles) in Windows 11. I also rarely use start menu (powertoys launcher, although it's been crapping out on Win 11 recently with focus and such).

I recently built a desktop since my MBP would turn in to a jet engine if I try to spin up a non trivial docker compose and I went for windows because I wanted to game - started on Windows 10 and was appalled at the ammount of crap they had preinstalled and there with the OS. Windows 11 beta has been much better in this regard.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#395

Post by specktr » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

themulticaster wrote: post #385

sevensor wrote: post #383

As a WSL user at work, this addresses exactly zero of my problems with running Windows. Windows Defender is still going to randomly spin up and bring my machine to a halt. The Windows Start Menu with its ads is still there. There are still 15 pieces of device driver desktop experience crapware running in the background. The RAT required by our IT department is still resident. Adding GUI support doesn't move the needl…

What's a RAT? I've never heard of it, and I'm afraid it's an not a googleable word. Remote Administration Tool? Something like Intel vPro?

They’re likely referring to a remote access trojan (malware) which likely shares many features of whatever administrative tool the IT team uses at that company.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#396

Post by lukeschlather » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #391

Stratoscope wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though our dev environment at work is Ubuntu, I greatly prefer running Windows on my ThinkPad X1 Extreme, because of the superior hardware support for the devices I use. Specifically: • I spend a fair amount of time on Zoom calls (who doesn't?), and I like to use my Apple AirPods so I can move around while we talk. I was never was able to get these or any other Bluetooth headset to work on Ubuntu. They pair only…

This seems mostly anecdotal, but I've been using Bluetooth headsets and headphones on Linux since around 2008, and most have worked out of the box with no issues. I do remember at the time, windows didn't really work with those Bluetooth headphones, and I actually started bringing my own Linux laptop to work just so I could use my headphones. When it comes to Zoom, I'd say the problem is having to use that crap and n…

> When it comes to Zoom, I'd say the problem is having to use that crap and not the fact that they barely support Linux. MS Teams also won't work on Linux, but it's hard to claim it's an issue on Linux's side. I'd suggest looking at something like Jitsi, which is also encrypted and takes security into consideration.

Jitsi is not as good as Zoom. Zoom seamlessly integrates with multiple monitors, and it provides a variety of tooling to rearrange your view of people and shared desktops. Just as an example last week I was helping two coworkers troubleshoot something, and I was able to have both of them share their desktops simultaneously. I had one on one monitor and one on the other. It was painless and instant. Maybe Jitsi supports such a thing somehow but it would have taken a minute or two to find the right buttons to press.

Also Zoom is encrypted. It has always been encrypted. Zoom lied about having E2E encryption and also weirdly had a lower-grade AES. Zoom is weird because while I 100% mistrust their motives in using weaker encryption, there are some legitimate tradeoffs between reliability and encryption - and it's actually pretty unlikely that they could implement E2E encryption without compromising video quality.

And ultimately especially with the pandemic and only being able to see people via video, even the smallest problems are potentially quite massive. I've used Jitsi a bit, and I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that it would mean that I would have spent at least an extra hour a week during the pandemic troubleshooting video when I was trying to have a nice visit with friends or family. I'm not going to be an ideologue when I lose that kind of time.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#397

Post by jvanderbot » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

reilly3000 wrote: post #31

I wonder what Linux exclusive software they are hoping to support. Everything I use in my Ubuntu daily driver has a Windows build or corollary app. I get how ‘you never have to leave Windows’ is a nice thing for their business, but I don’t see this being a reason I would stop dual-booting. The only reason I run windows in the first place is for a few apps, mostly games. Otherwise I really enjoy the bloat-free, ad-fre…

Well, ROS?

I can't tell you how many people want to mess around with the robot operating system but don't want to dive head first into Linux. Hell, my very large robotics company won't even give you a linux machine. You're forced to use Mac or Windows or build it yourself.

But in general, I haven't dual-booted my main machine since WSL got good, and I'm a linxu-first kind of person with a penchant for windows gaming.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#398

Post by thefr0g » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 3:15 PM UTC

nanna wrote: post #337

raman162 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's missing from the Linux Desktop experience for you? I currently use all three operating systems on a weekly basis, Ubuntu with i3 (a window tiling manager) is my daily driver. Everytime I switch to windows or Mac os, it always feels like a downgrade for me because I can't replicate the tiling experience. The one thing I love about mac, is the trackpad experience, I wish windows and Linux could get to that level…

Microsoft Word. That's literally the only thing which stops me from installing Windows on all of my friend's and family's aging laptops. LibreOffice just isn't capable of 100% replicating the formatting of a docx generated by Word, which for most people is a deal-breaker. (For me it's not, but for non-techie associates it is.) I just don't understand why there's not more pressure on MS to port Office to Linux in exch…

> LibreOffice just isn't capable of 100% replicating the formatting of a docx generated by Word

I mean even different versions of Word can't do that reliably...

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#399

Post by Fanmade » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #391

Stratoscope wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though our dev environment at work is Ubuntu, I greatly prefer running Windows on my ThinkPad X1 Extreme, because of the superior hardware support for the devices I use. Specifically: • I spend a fair amount of time on Zoom calls (who doesn't?), and I like to use my Apple AirPods so I can move around while we talk. I was never was able to get these or any other Bluetooth headset to work on Ubuntu. They pair only…

This seems mostly anecdotal, but I've been using Bluetooth headsets and headphones on Linux since around 2008, and most have worked out of the box with no issues. I do remember at the time, windows didn't really work with those Bluetooth headphones, and I actually started bringing my own Linux laptop to work just so I could use my headphones. When it comes to Zoom, I'd say the problem is having to use that crap and n…

It is not true that Ms Teams does not work on Linux. We do have several devs working on Linux (don't know which specific distros though) and it works just fine. There are some annoying pop ups saying "Teams is ready" anytime they get a message and one of them has to switch something about his graphics from time to time to be able share his screen (which has never been a problem problem for anyone else), but I wouldn't say that it doesn't work at all.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#400

Post by sevensor » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

specktr wrote: post #395

themulticaster wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a RAT? I've never heard of it, and I'm afraid it's an not a googleable word. Remote Administration Tool? Something like Intel vPro?

They’re likely referring to a remote access trojan (malware) which likely shares many features of whatever administrative tool the IT team uses at that company.

Is there a fundamental difference between a remote administration tool and a remote access trojan?