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Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

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Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#211

Post by IshKebab »

amw-zero wrote: post #191

If you ask me, the number one reason is that Android and iOS have UI libraries that are specifically meant for mobile devices. Yes, you can design a web app for a mobile phone, but there is nothing that guides you or gives you any help in that direction. For example, navigation between screens. On iOS, you have a nav bar at the top of the screen, and when you navigate to a new screen it slides over the current one, a…

That's definitely not the reason. When the iPhone first came out the idea was that all third party apps would be web apps. It was the official way.

Of course everyone hated it because performance sucked and interactions weren't smooth and reliable.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#212

Post by LeonB »

yobbo wrote: post #74
lewantmontreal wrote: post #11

Two words: Application permissions. Any application I install on the desktop can potentially steal my data and ruin my life. And no, big names like Spotify or Valve don’t offer complete protection either due to supply chain attacks.

Yes, but normies don't really understand or care. The big difference is the "inviting" experience of installing apps on smartphones. Yes search the name and tap "install app".

We do the same in Windows App Store too. … except it’s unlikely to be the easiest way to get the apps you love and not effective as a means of discovering new apps, plus and because of that they haven’t succeeded at attracting developers to their concept. Why would a developer spend however long making their app available in Windows store unless they were already a big name? And how easy is it if you’re on any one of the now disjointed and incompatible litany of display technologies (forms, wpf, silverlight, uwp, dos, powershell) and pay big platform costs for the privilege. I am in reality hoping to do it ASAP.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#213

Post by brundolf »

Installation threshold is my guess.

To install an app on mobile you go to a specific place, find it, peruse screenshots and reviews if you want to, hit one standardized button, and it's installed in seconds.

On desktop, you Google it. You hope the first link is the right one and not malware. You poke through a few pages until you find some sort of download button. Your OS asks you where you want to save it. You save it and then go find the file and open it. Then some kind of installer usually runs that may ask you further questions. It's probably going to dump some clutter in various places and will hopefully give you an icon that you can use to run it without searching for the install location.

For companies trying to ratchet-up conversions, this friction matters a whole lot

These days there's also the developer experience, but I think developer experience for desktop apps tanked because marketshare tanked, not the other way around

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#214

Post by [deleted] »

imbnwa wrote: post #201
dukeofdoom wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good open successor to flash would have made the app stores much less appealing. But that never happened.

I worked with a company middle of last decade that had to port its Flash content to Canvas and friends, its not even close the power Flash provided, not to mention the content development ecosystem surrounding Animate. Like, yeah, go ahead and export Canvas content from Animate, but be prepared for highly unoptimized Canvas runtime code.

[deleted]

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#215

Post by dTal »

binkHN wrote: post #138
mattlondon wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone…

> Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". I'm routinely in the same boat, though it's less about the computer and more about not fighting with a tiny monitor. Most things built for mobile are "light" versions, as easily exposing all the bells and whistles on a 6" monitor would be a UI nightmare.

You think it's the tiny monitor, but it's really the primitive UI designed for caveman-style point-and-grunt. I've been using a GPD Micro PC extensively over the past few months, which is equipped with a 6" screen, but also - critically - a touchpad and physical thumb keyboard. Guess what, I can do programming, CAD, image editing, the works - everything you can do on a larger machine.

The Micro PC proves that we were sold a myth; that dumbed-down UIs were a necessary evil to enjoy computers in our pockets. They aren't. Pocket sized laptops work amazingly.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#216

Post by dfdz »

After a long discussion of sea algae the author makes several good points. Here is a short summary to save others time. On Mobile:

> The basis of performance shifted from small binaries to smooth interaction.

> Log-in disappeared completely. The web’s de facto identity system is designed for a world of keyboards. Thumb-typing usernames and passwords is excruciating. But native app log-in is one-and-done.

> Discovery shifted from search to app store.

> Engagement shifted from links to icons.

> Business models expanded to IAP, subscriptions, and app purchase. Security shifted from sandbox to app review.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#217

Post by [deleted] »

alpaca128 wrote: post #16
jjtheblunt wrote: post #7

Mobile code can not burn battery on unnecessary cpu use, and certainly not on unnecessary use of power transmitting over a radio link repetitively loading things: desktop gets power plugged into a wall and is therefore less constrained.

> unnecessary use of power transmitting over a radio link repetitively loading things Web apps can be installed on the phone. Has been working on Android for a long time, and it won't need to reload anything. I don't see them being much less efficient than "native" Android apps, especially considering their average quality. > desktop gets power plugged into a wall and is therefore less constrained Unless it's a lapto…

[deleted]

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#218

Post by tootie »

feanaro wrote: post #77

Native phone apps are more invasive and can therefore be used for more extensive tracking and spying, which is good for ad revenue. Remember how all the largest spying products like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit, Twitter, etc aggressively push you to install their phone apps even though they are (or were) perfectly usable through their mobile websites.

It's not spying, it's the first party revenue. It's easier to collect a fee for an app install and for Apple to take a huge cut. App dominance was very deliberately engineered by Apple. It didn't happen organically.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#219

Post by dTal »

apozem wrote: post #171
yobbo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but normies don't really understand or care. The big difference is the "inviting" experience of installing apps on smartphones. Yes search the name and tap "install app".

I think normal users do have a fear of installing software on desktop. There's this fear of "viruses." They know they exist, they don't know how they work, but they know you shouldn't install anything or you'll let them in. They view third-party software like vampires - intruders trying to trick them into opening the door. Which, given the history of adware toolbars and registry bloat on Windows, is maybe warranted.…

That's the correct default view of software.

Where we've gone astray is that people don't treat "apps" the same way.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#220

Post by polote »

bhawks wrote: post #59

When iPhone and Android hit the scene the 'rich' web experience was primarily flash, silverlight, and some java applets (taking their last breathe). Input APIs for touch, multitouch and gesture were a mess for many years in the browser. Media queries didn't become a w3c recommendation until 2012 so building a ux that looked pleasant really wasn't possible. The memory, cpu, GPU, storage and battery constraints were un…

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift?

Because CSS +HTML + JS is 20x easier to learn than any mobile code language. Anyone in a few hours can create a website, that has never been the case for mobile apps.

You can even create a basic website by copy pasting some html template and modifying the content with notepad.

As a result - as long as Google doesn't decide to deprecate HTML and CSS because it doesn't suit their complex requirements - the web is assured that much more people will be able to create website than apps. When you look at Kotlin or Swift, HTML looks like a no-code language

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