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Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

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Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#141

Two words: Application permissions. Any application I install on the desktop can potentially steal my data and ruin my life. And no, big names like Spotify or Valve don’t offer complete protection either due to supply chain attacks.

Your desktop does not have much private data (other than your files, which reputable programs don't scan without reason). Your phone has your location, your activity status, your phonebook, which 99.9% of people cannot spoof

> Your desktop does not have much private data (other than your files, which reputable programs don't scan without reason)

Disagreed. It's not just about files; once you run an untrusted binary on a desktop it will typically be able to capture your screen, keyboard input, etc. It doesn't need to be in a file for malicious software to be able to pick it up.

In contrast, mobile applications typically run within a sandbox where short of an OS/kernel exploit there is no way for the app to access anything else but its own data (besides a very limited subset like photos, etc that you still have to authorize explicitly).

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#142
I like the overall framework of trying to identify asymmetries that web was able to exploit in each epoch. Unfortunately, the details are a real mixed bag:

* Why did the web disrupt desktop?

It's not even really worth addressing these, because they're all so weak. None of the actual reasons that web was successful are here. And the ones that are there are nonsense. For example, to suggest that security in the browser was a significant factor in the success of the web on the desktop is utterly detached from reality. Even if average people cared (which they didn't) then they'd be better off trusting software bought at the store than going into the wild west of the internet with the shambles that we called browser security back then.

* Why didn’t the web disrupt mobile?

- the web’s network advantage had evaporated

If anything this argues against the thesis that "make anaerobes do photosynthesis" is insufficient. How would apps become successful by merely matching the existing networked nature of the web? At best this item is filler that adds nothing.

- The iPhone was a completely new thing

Yes, this is actually a good point. New paradigms and new APIs for a new type of device. Makes sense.

- The basis of performance shifted from small binaries to smooth interaction

What? No. This is silly. There's no way that the web prioritizing download size had a significant impact here. And "smooth interaction" has absolutely nothing to do with binary size, so I have no idea why the author is associating them.

- Navigation shifted from keyboard to springboard

Kind of a repeat of the smartphone being a new device, but okay, good additional flavor.

- Log-in disappeared completely

I mean I guess. But if there's any difference, it's more a matter of shared devices not being so much of a thing with phones. Web is perfectly capable of "one-and-done" logins, and many sites do that. And you could easily have a longer session cookie on your mobile site based on the single-user-per-device assumption.

- Discovery shifted from search to app store

Decent point, but only by accident. "Lowering the friction of software install" is nothing, since web has zero friction in that regard. I don't think that typing-free discovery was really that huge of a deal either. But having a large ecosystem of app developers, with ratings and featured content, was enormously influential. This might have been possible with web technologies but obviously nobody did it well enough to gain critical mass.

- Engagement shifted from links to icons

You could have single-page applications on web, with shortcuts on your home screen, send notifications through the browser, etc. You can use icons instead of links on web. Behind the pile of buzzwords, this item is nothing. "Deep, branded experiences" really?

- Business models expanded to IAP, subscriptions, and app purchase.

Yeah I think this is a good point. Having a single payment processor in the play store / app store that knows your payment details did reduce friction.

- Security shifted from sandbox to app review

No, no, no. Not this again. People don't really care about security, and anyway again, app security was still dogshit by the time it had won on mobile, just like browser security was by the time it had won on the desktop. Apps requesting tons of permissions to spy on users were rampant for years and years, even with apps being reviewed by apple/google. And how does this item even constitute a competitive advantage? You can have a browser remember permission to access your location or camera or whatever. There's nothing here.

I feel like this article really dazzled with its introduction tying in business and evolution and setting up the framework for the problem, but then fell to absolute pieces when it came time for the author to actually know anything about technology. Even if there are some good points here, the missteps really undermine their credibility. The analysis of the success of web on desktop is especially lacking, but I don't feel like it's a great analysis on the web vs app section either...

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#143
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone…

> Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". I'm routinely in the same boat, though it's less about the computer and more about not fighting with a tiny monitor. Most things built for mobile are "light" versions, as easily exposing all the bells and whistles on a 6" monitor would be a UI nightmare.

Tiny monitor, obnoxious keyboard. I haven't enjoyed typing on a phone since I reluctantly (that word took me 5 tries) set down my Lumia 920 Windows phone.

Also my mouse is (insert big number) times more precise than my index finger.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#145
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone…

I feel you have this completely backwards. I think for the vast majority of non-tech users, the smartphone was their first everyday computer.

Anecdotally, that's not what I witnessed for family members 30+, but it has been the case for the younger generation (< 20).

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#146

The answer is simple. Mobile devices lag behind desktop devices by about 10 years in terms of memory and processing power. When did web applications really start to dominate on the desktop? Think Electron apps and things like that - less than 10 years ago. My prediction? Within 5 years web apps will have taken over in the mobile space.

I agree with this. In fact I believe that THE WEB IS TAKING OVER MOBILE. Every day a new mobile experience needs to be created and one more developer thinks: "well I'll just make a responsive website/webapp rather than making 2 native apps". At waiterio.com I personally started with a native Android app in Java, then we added a native Objective-C app then... I just rewrote everything in React and wrapped in a Webview. Today a simple mobile app can totally be written in Javascript to look identical to a native app. I was on the edge of the mobile wave 12 years ago and yet today I barely ever install a new native app on my phone. There are very few use cases for things that are better done on mobile (ex Google Maps, Uber). Most of stuff are just better done on a larger screen. That said, there is and will be a huge part of the population doing stuff on mobile but frankly they are the CONSUMERS that did not know how to properly use a computer. Sure you can buy an airplane ticket from a smartphone but in reality if you own a laptop and are good with it it will take you less to walk to your laptop and buy it on the laptop then buy it from the couch on your smartphone making a typo every 5 characters you type in.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? Not sure it is relevant anymore for a non-trivial chunk of people - at least in mobile. Lately I have quite often needed to explain about a good web app accessible in browser but not in app store. And I am a bit bewildered. The amount of people pretty much unable to distinguish between browser, app store and…

I don't have an iPhone, can you expand on that location services part? Does Safari not show the permission popup when a website asks for it or something? On Android, websites can request location permissions, you can't access any of that stuff by default.

I do not have iphone either, but based on my observations many (most?) iphone owners have disabled safari location services from the os side, so you can't just allow them from the permission popup, but you need to go to the os settings and enable them for safari before you can bypass the permission popup. Again, I do not own an iphone, so not sure if it is exactly like this, but something like that needs to be done in many iohones trying to access location data from safari.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#148
post #77

Native phone apps are more invasive and can therefore be used for more extensive tracking and spying, which is good for ad revenue. Remember how all the largest spying products like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit, Twitter, etc aggressively push you to install their phone apps even though they are (or were) perfectly usable through their mobile websites.

Reddit is a really weird one to me. Their mobile site is very nice - so nice that I don't feel any desire to install the app - aside from the fact that they desperately want me to stop using it and push the app at every opportunity. (Recently they even decided to block NSFW-flagged content from the mobile site unless you're logged in - you get a box telling you to install the app to see it.) What I don't get is why t…

You must be using a different reddit website, the one I know is horrible. It's slow, it's buggy, videos don't always work without a refresh after waiting 10 seconds to be able to click play. The UI is all wrong:

for example, you open the comments of a post, it opens a faux-modal with a X button. You tap it, it closes the post but opens the subreddit. It doesn't go back to where you were.

Another example is how to collapse a thread on the comments you need to press the empty space beside the username?!?!

It's so slow and wrong that I've built my own front-end, but it's virtually impossible to load reddit videos correctly...

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What open content? Wikipedia? That's If we're judging whether the Web promotes open content by the actual results after three decades, the exact opposite is the case: the Web promotes closed content. Netflix, ESPN, Google/Gmail/Maps/News/etc, Microsoft/Bing/Office/mail/etc, NYTimes, Washington Post, USA Today, MSNBC, CNBC, Reuters, AP, CNN, Bloomberg, FoxNews, ABC, CBS, NBC, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, Link…

The protocol. Websites are accessible over a known , open protocol to every visitor, (Geofencing etc is there, but...), but apps use proprietary protocols which only the particular app can decode. You can see the ESPN website on any old browser, but the ESPN app content needs the ESPN app, and nothing else will work.

Open protocols don't make open sites or apps.

Cases in point: Facebook, Instagram, Twitter (increasingly closed), Reddit (increasingly closed). All of them have sites built on open protocols.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#150
There's something I don't understand. I've been hearing about "responsive web design" for years, that you should make sure your websites work well on mobile phones, because they are the majority of the traffic. I know that doesn't mean that the majority of phone usage is spent on the web, but still, mobile users use the web, and they use it a lot.
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