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Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

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Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#91

Post by Retric »

forty wrote: post #79
feanaro wrote: post #77

Native phone apps are more invasive and can therefore be used for more extensive tracking and spying, which is good for ad revenue. Remember how all the largest spying products like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit, Twitter, etc aggressively push you to install their phone apps even though they are (or were) perfectly usable through their mobile websites.

Also there is no app store on the web, no 30% fee. So no incentive for mobile platform owners to make it first class citizen.

The web isn’t a first class citizen on desktop as you can’t run new AAA games in one. The real difference is the web is a more limited UI that breaks down when your also forced to use the more limited interface of mobile.

For example on desktop the top 10% or so of the screen is taken up by the browsers UI and tabs which is normally fine. On a tablet in keyboard mode your left with ~40% of the screen being useable. Native applications sidestep this by not needing the browsers UI.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#92

Post by mattlondon »

bhawks wrote: post #59

When iPhone and Android hit the scene the 'rich' web experience was primarily flash, silverlight, and some java applets (taking their last breathe). Input APIs for touch, multitouch and gesture were a mess for many years in the browser. Media queries didn't become a w3c recommendation until 2012 so building a ux that looked pleasant really wasn't possible. The memory, cpu, GPU, storage and battery constraints were un…

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift?

We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon

I am sure everyone on HN moved quickly, but for the rest of the non-tech world I am sure they were doing just fine using their home computer for several more years.

Even now, I still think "I'll wait and do this on a proper computer". It's not like apps have solved all computing-ills - many are total garbage with bugs and/or poorly thought through designs.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#93

Post by cblconfederate »

lewantmontreal wrote: post #11

Two words: Application permissions. Any application I install on the desktop can potentially steal my data and ruin my life. And no, big names like Spotify or Valve don’t offer complete protection either due to supply chain attacks.

Your desktop does not have much private data (other than your files, which reputable programs don't scan without reason). Your phone has your location, your activity status, your phonebook, which 99.9% of people cannot spoof

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#95

Post by gsich »

mattlondon wrote: post #92
bhawks wrote: post #59

When iPhone and Android hit the scene the 'rich' web experience was primarily flash, silverlight, and some java applets (taking their last breathe). Input APIs for touch, multitouch and gesture were a mess for many years in the browser. Media queries didn't become a w3c recommendation until 2012 so building a ux that looked pleasant really wasn't possible. The memory, cpu, GPU, storage and battery constraints were un…

> The real question is how did the web remain relevant while being so far behind this tectonic platform shift? We didn't all shift to to smartphones the instant they became available. It took a while for people to transition to smartphones. Likewise getting an app up and running (in addition to their websites) took time for most businesses, and many probably waited before jumping on the band wagon I am sure everyone…

What transition? Mobile is the lite version.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#96

Post by Razengan »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #90
adventured wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What open content? Wikipedia? That's If we're judging whether the Web promotes open content by the actual results after three decades, the exact opposite is the case: the Web promotes closed content. Netflix, ESPN, Google/Gmail/Maps/News/etc, Microsoft/Bing/Office/mail/etc, NYTimes, Washington Post, USA Today, MSNBC, CNBC, Reuters, AP, CNN, Bloomberg, FoxNews, ABC, CBS, NBC, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, Link…

Open as in no spyware required.

Uhhhhhhhh do you think websites have no ““spyware””?

Have you heard of biscuits?

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#97

Post by cblconfederate »

Native platforms are just a transitory phase -- because the web people coulnd't make up their minds fast enough about the suitable APIs for mobile. Native mobile apps are basically imitating the web, they even have URLs and links. It's inconvenient, since mostly they take you in and out of web pages. When google's economic interests align again with the web, we ll probably see the end of the native-binary packaging of the web, just like how we experienced the end of CD-ROMs

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#98

Post by profmonocle »

feanaro wrote: post #77

Native phone apps are more invasive and can therefore be used for more extensive tracking and spying, which is good for ad revenue. Remember how all the largest spying products like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit, Twitter, etc aggressively push you to install their phone apps even though they are (or were) perfectly usable through their mobile websites.

Reddit is a really weird one to me. Their mobile site is very nice - so nice that I don't feel any desire to install the app - aside from the fact that they desperately want me to stop using it and push the app at every opportunity. (Recently they even decided to block NSFW-flagged content from the mobile site unless you're logged in - you get a box telling you to install the app to see it.)

What I don't get is why they put all the effort into maintaining a high-quality mobile site if they hate people using it this much. Just get rid of it and load the desktop version. Pop-ups saying "Reddit works better in the app" would be less off-putting if the alternative was an unoptimized desktop site, rather than a perfectly good mobile site whose only downside was said pop-ups.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#99

Post by amelius »

tomrod wrote: post #86
amelius wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Native phone apps are more invasive and can therefore be used for more extensive tracking and spying, which is good for ad revenue. It's probably because the specificiation for native apps is always cooked up by a single company, whereas the web specificiation is always under scrutiny of multiple organizations.

While noble, I think this misses the profit motive and me-too FOMO effect of industry strategy. Never attribute to purely good engineering and design that which is incentivized by profit.

Yes, the conflicting incentive angle was implied in my comment, and is imho an important reason why these specifications should not be written and imposed by a single actor.

Re: Why did the web take over desktop and not mobile?

#100

Post by quonn »

Retric wrote: post #91
forty wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there is no app store on the web, no 30% fee. So no incentive for mobile platform owners to make it first class citizen.

The web isn’t a first class citizen on desktop as you can’t run new AAA games in one. The real difference is the web is a more limited UI that breaks down when your also forced to use the more limited interface of mobile. For example on desktop the top 10% or so of the screen is taken up by the browsers UI and tabs which is normally fine. On a tablet in keyboard mode your left with ~40% of the screen being useable. N…

This is a very important point. Mobile web apps primarily don‘t feel right because of the browser UI and also because the interaction with scrolling/tapping is never quite as perfect.
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