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Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#171

Post by dataflow »

numpad0 wrote: post #164
shados wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, if that's true, I'm back to raging about how absolutely ridiculous this is. Why obsolete a computer that can still run almost anything on high-ish settings @.@ Because there's 0.01% more crash or whatever....

I’m speculating it was supposed to let them drop Meltdown patches. Doing so easily creates “20% performance gain over Windows 10 on same machine”. Aligns with the statement that they “block” “security” updates. But this is clearly coming from someone who’s not actively in coding role and without consultation with developers, as some of CPUs(namely Ryzen 2k) to be supported don’t have the required but not very well de…

I don't think 7820HQ has more resistance to Meltdown than 7700HQ. In fact TSX-NI might make it worse. Yet they allow the former but not the latter.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#172

Post by ryanmarsh »

This is cool and I’m not knocking it. Just wanted to point out the irony that back in my day there was lots of fear that MS would embrace extend and extinguish Linux. How ironic would it be if this happened inadvertently because WSL got that good.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#173

Post by squarefoot »

NortySpock wrote: post #151
squarefoot wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That aside it’s terrific to see MS putting something good into Windows rather than just removing things and taking choice away from the end user. That's the tip of the iceberg MS want everyone to see, and point the finger at. MS want people to stop using Linux as an alternative since they lost the battle when they attempted to kill it during the Ballmer era. The plan now is more subtle: making sure everyone using L…

So the Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI (WSLg) business plan looks like this, I assume: Step 1: get lots of devs using WSL / WSL GUI. Step 2: Get them comfortable with flexibly using WSL GUI on Linux and Windows interchangeably Step 3: roll out your poison pill: new Version X, offering great compatibility on Windows but bad integration with Linux; maybe Linux support is buggy or nonexistent, maybe the API doesn't mesh…

> Whatever creates the most pain for Linux / FOSS users.

Not necessarily to this level of malice.

Many (most?) Linux users, especially new ones, use also Windows, so all it needs for MS to convince them to use only Windows+WSL and not say a dual boot machine or two machines, is something that just integrates the two systems, so that most users will feel more comfortable running everything under Windows.

The killer product in my opinion would be something that allows accessing to Windows internals and GUI from a Linux program (imagine "/usr/bin/excel", a port of Excel that works only under Windows+WSL). Those functionalities would be offered by something that "pure" Linux distributions could not offer, including WINE, since we're talking about the full OS and not an API translation layer. Once users and developers are accustomed to it (many devs already develop under WSL) we'll reach the point in which the two worlds will fork in favor of Windows: what is developed under Linux will also work under Windows+WSL but not the other way around. That would probably be the moment MS will introduce their own Linux distribution (advertised as the only one that can take full advantage of "most recent Linux developments") that under the hood could either be normal Windows+WSL, or a different one containing a "hidden" Windows blob allowing developers to run native Linux, hybrid Linux+Windows, and possibly native Windows apps, either free or a lot cheaper than Windows+WSL.

If this happens, most Linux users, especially desktop ones, would rather go back to Windows rather than for example stay with Ubuntu+WINE. Server, embedded and other smaller niches users will make an exception, but Linux is in serious risk of losing all other users.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#174

Post by dirkg »

I'd love to use WSL2 but the longstanding issue with slow I/O between WSL NTFS host is a dealbreaker. It basically means you have to keep all your data inside ext4 in Linux and that defeats the whole point - e.g. you can't keep your code, or files you download etc in Windows.

With WSL you can keep all data in NTFS, have near native speeds but you can't run a bunch of Linux cmdline tools.

I don't know if they can solve it, its basically sending data across the network, But this is the last barrier to a great Linux on Windows.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#175

Post by cogman10 »

nereye wrote: post #153
cogman10 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the greatest features of WSL1 was the fact that it wasn't a VM. All apps were running natively and managed by the windows kernel. I now have to deal with the fact that every so often the WSL 2 VM will simply consume too much memory, which really stinks. WSL1 felt SO close to being perfect.

You can switch back and forth as required, from https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/wsl2-faq#what-w... : What will happen to WSL 1? Will it be abandoned? We currently have no plans to deprecate WSL 1. You can run WSL 1 and WSL 2 distros side by side, and can upgrade and downgrade any distro at any time.

I get all that, but it's hard to imagine with the current naming scheme that you'll be doing much beyond the bare minimum support for WSL1. I have a hard time believing that new WSL1 features will land.

There's a giant chasm between "not deprecated" and "actively supporting".

For example, I'm guessing that running a docker container with WSL1 is something that will never happen.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#176

Post by Stevvo »

pygar wrote: post #100

This is undoubtedly cool but I'm curious to know of a use case that would warrant installing this. Could this just have been a step in creating "Windows Subsystem for Android" [0] that they decided to release as its own layer? The screenshot on the github page shows VSCode, Edge, Blender, Xcalc, Xclock and GNOME file manager which are all either available natively on windows or redundant. [0] https://www.xda-develope…

I can think of one niche use case; Houdini is a Linux/Unix native 3D graphics software which I would prefer to work with in a Linux environment, but on Windows to be alongside all the other applications in my workflow. I imagine there is software in other fields with similar situations.

Note there is nothing wrong with the Windows version of Houdini, it's just Linux is more suitable for it.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#177

Post by wahern »

ziftface wrote: post #158
ubercow13 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already run GUI apps in containers using pure wayland, just bind the socket into the container.

> just bind the socket into the container I thought Wayland relied on shared memory with the compositor to work? I could be way off though

Containers run under the same kernel, so sharing memory works the same as it does for processes generally.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#178

Post by merb »

reilly3000 wrote: post #31

I wonder what Linux exclusive software they are hoping to support. Everything I use in my Ubuntu daily driver has a Windows build or corollary app. I get how ‘you never have to leave Windows’ is a nice thing for their business, but I don’t see this being a reason I would stop dual-booting. The only reason I run windows in the first place is for a few apps, mostly games. Otherwise I really enjoy the bloat-free, ad-fre…

the reverse would also be pretty useful. heck if they would pull off office for linux even when they would charge windows pro and a 365 license it would probably be welcomed.

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#179

Post by smichel17 »

mcswell wrote: post #147
smichel17 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which apps? Not that it makes a difference for this conversation, but I'm interested in keeping up to date with what the "killer apps" are that keep people from switching.

If you're talking about Windows apps that keep me from switching to Linux, I have an oddball one: it's a keyboard re-mapper that I wrote back in Windows 3.1 and still use. It does the same re-mapping in every application (except for some reason in Microsoft Edge). It's not a simple 1-for-1 mapper, which I think is readily available in Linux. At the simplest level, it re-maps ^H to the left cursor arrow, ^N to PageDow…

That sounds pretty similar to the QMK firmware that runs on my keyboard (an Ergodox-EZ).

It's been a blast to play around with. Best part is that it travels with the keyboard rather than the OS, so I can plug into a different computer and retain the same layout without needing to install anything.

I've been slowly resetting all my OS hotkeys/shortcuts to their defaults, and customizing the position of those keys on my keyboard instead. Current layout, for reference: https://configure.zsa.io/ergodox-ez/layouts/xbzAL/latest/0

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux GUI

#180

Post by mcbuilder »

reilly3000 wrote: post #31

I wonder what Linux exclusive software they are hoping to support. Everything I use in my Ubuntu daily driver has a Windows build or corollary app. I get how ‘you never have to leave Windows’ is a nice thing for their business, but I don’t see this being a reason I would stop dual-booting. The only reason I run windows in the first place is for a few apps, mostly games. Otherwise I really enjoy the bloat-free, ad-fre…

I have a Windows machine for my work at giant megacorp. I run Linux on my at home machines, but the honest to god I can't believe it's not Linux experience I've gotten from WSL has been great. I pretty much tab into my full screen Linux Window manager running in a X11 client window and get down to work.
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