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Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

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Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#711

From Epic CEO Tim Sweeney from NYT article[1]: Tim Sweeney, Epic’s chief executive, said on Twitter that he was not satisfied with the ruling because it did not go far enough in allowing companies to complete in-app transactions with their own payment systems, versus having to direct customers to outside websites. He said Fortnite would not return to the App Store until such rules were in place. “Today’s ruling isn’t…

Apple's reaction to Sweeney's statement: "See ya!!!"

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#712
It's worth noting that this ruling was not particularly great for Epic as their ultimate goal was to run their own app store under the theory that Apple was unfairly monopolizing app distribution on iOS devices.

The court fully rejected Epic's argument that Apple held a monopoly over the iOS app distribution market, concluding that the relevant antitrust market did not consist only of iOS devices:

> "As demonstrated with respect to the relevant market, Apple does not have substantial market power equating to monopoly power. While considerable, Epic Games has failed to show that Apple’s market power is durable and sustaining given the current state of the relevant market. For that reason, the Court finds that Epic Games failed to prove the first element of a Section 2 claim: the possession of monopoly power in the relevant market." (Page 152)

Consequently all of Epic's Sherman Act claims and California Cartwright Act claims were rejected by the court because Epic failed to prove Apple held monopoly power in the relevant market.

With specific regards to Epic's specific claim that blocking alternative app stores was an unreasonable restraint of trade, the way the court analyzes these types of claims is as follows:

1. The plaintiff first has to show that the restraints have an anti-competitive effect.

2. The defendant is then given the opportunity to show a pro-competitive justification for the restraint.

3. The plaintiff then has to show that those pro-competitive justifications could have been achieved via less restrictive alternatives.

In this case, the court agreed with Epic that the constraint was anti-competitive. However, they then accepted Apple's pro-competitive justification with regards to security of the platform (page 145):

> "Here, the Court finds Apple’s security justification to be a valid and nonpretextual business reason for restricting app distribution. As previously discussed, see supra Facts § V.A.2., centralized app distribution enables Apple to conduct app review, which includes both technical and human components. Human review in particular helps protect security by preventing social engineering attacks, the main vector of malware distribution. Human review also helps protect against fraud, privacy intrusion, and objectionable content beyond levels achievable by purely technical measures. By providing these protections, Apple provides a safe and trusted user experience on iOS, which encourages both users and developers to transact freely and is mutually beneficial. As a result, Apple’s conduct “enhance[s] consumer appeal.” See Qualcomm, 969 F.3d at 991."

They also accepted that the difference in approaches between iOS and Android promoted competition between the two platforms (page 146):

> "As a corollary of the security justification, the app distribution restrictions promote interbrand competition. The Supreme Court has recognized that limiting intrabrand competition can promote interbrand competition. Leegin, 551 U.S. at 890. For example, restricting price competition among retailers who sell a particular product can help the manufacturer of that product compete against other manufacturers. Id. at 890–91. It is this interbrand competition that “the antitrust laws are designed primarily to protect.” Id. at 895. Here, centralized app distribution and the “walled garden” approach differentiates Apple from Google. That distinction ultimately increases consumer choice by allowing users who value open distribution to purchase Android devices, while those who value security and the protection of a “walled garden” to purchase iOS devices. This, too, is a legitimate procompetitive justification."

Epic tried to argue that a less restrictive alternative was possible via enterprise certification or notarization, but this argument was rejected by the court (pages 148-149):

> "However, missing from both the enterprise and notarization models is human app review which provides most of the protection against privacy violations, human fraud, and social engineering. These proposed alternatives would require Apple to either add human review to the notarization model or leave app review to third-party app stores. Apple executives suggested that the first option would not scale well. Under the second option, Apple could in theory set minimum guidelines for app stores to provide a “floor” for privacy, security, and quality. However, security could increase or decrease depending on the quality and diligence of the store. Evidence shows that at least on Android, the experiment shows less security.

...

> In short, Epic Games has not met its burden to show that its proposed alternatives are “virtually as effective” as the current distribution model and can be implemented “without significantly increased cost.”

...

> Here, Apple’s business choice of ensuring security and protecting its intellectual property rights through centralized app distribution is reasonable, and the Court declines to second-guess that judgment on an underdeveloped record.

...

> Accordingly, the Court finds that Apple’s app distribution restrictions do not violate Section 1 of the Sherman Act."

While this decision will no doubt be appealed by both sides, it's not looking particularly good for Epic's goal of forcing open alternative app stores on the iOS platform.

Finally, the court also affirmed Apple's right to permanently ban Epic from the App Store for violation of the developer agreement (page 179):

> (2) a declaration that (i) Apple’s termination of the DPLA and the related agreements between Epic Games and Apple was valid, lawful, and enforceable, and (ii) Apple has the contractual right to terminate its DPLA with any or all of Epic Games’ wholly owned subsidiaries, affiliates, and/or other entities under Epic Games’ control at any time and at Apple's sole discretion.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#713
post #572
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll get no argument from me that Apple's system is pretty good from a consumer standpoint — that's the primary reason why I predicted that it'd remain popular. It's really nice knowing that you can nuke a subscription without getting some dark patterns trying to talk you out of it. On the other hand, it's really easy to imagine that you'd see something like “$9.99 IAP; $7.99 direct from Epic/Amazon/Google/Netflix/…

I had a WSJ subscription which I couldn’t cancel online. You have to call them, wait in line and then let them talk you into another free month and stuff. A bad experience. It was so annoying I just gave up until my CC was locked. This experience was definitely more expensive than using Apple’s services.

They have a class action lawsuit against them.

I believe it just covers automatic renewals, which are illegial.

The WSJ needs to clean up their act. Offer better info to subscribers? The rest of us arn't going to pay. And I know it's difficult business. Figure out something newsboys besides trickery?

Fire that MBA in charge of subscriptions.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#715
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing is no customer wants to use any company's half-assed bug-riddled purchase or subscription system. Every iOS and macOS user will prefer to use the Apple system. The first sentence is true but incomplete, making the second wrong. For example, the Amazon app is highly likely to have people using their existing Amazon payment method. Companies like Stripe are going to offer their own SDKs just like they do fo…

Oh I agree with you. I think 30% is highway robbery and that opinion hasn't changed since day one. But also just take a look at the number of subscriptions we all have these days - Entertainment stuff (Spotify/Music, Netflix/streaming, HBO, Xbox Live), Donations (Charity, Github Sponsors), Software (Password managers, backup solutions, Jetbrains, Adobe), Membership (Prime/equivalent, internet, mobile), ... yada yada…

You are totally right, and I also feel we won’t get out of this situation for a while.

Let’s be honest, my Amazon payments will never fit into Apple’s bubble. The things is, I prefer to deal with Amazon than Apple. Same for things like Patreon, I don’t think they do, but I can’t imagine Apple getting a cut of each donation.

So to me the status quo was just the worst outcome.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#716

Think Apple has already seen the writing on the wall - both S. Korea & the US are now probably going to push back against the IAP restrictions, and they can / should do a couple of things, which might actually increase revenue. 1. Cut down the IAP commission to 15% for everyone. 2. Cut down the commission to 5% for those who pay for a Business Account, say at $5,000 a year. The thing is no customer wants to use any c…

Tragedy of the commons.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#717
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just have common sense property rights enforced by law?

What’s common sense property right? Isn’t it common sense to not buy a toaster expecting it to be a server even though they both have circuit boards and technically can both compute ? Still don’t get why don’t you just buy things that advertise the functionality you want.

> Isn’t it common sense to not buy a toaster expecting it to be a server even though they both have circuit boards and technically can both compute?

The key here is control, not computational power. An ideal law, in my opinion, would be one which prohibits building and selling any device that can run code in a way which allows the manufacturer to have more control over it than the legal owner after the sale has been completed. I think this idea is actually great because it never limits how limited a device can be, it just prohibits it from being made in a way in which the OEM/maker can control it more than the end user/new owner could.

As an example, say you make a "smart toaster" with Wi-Fi and all that "good stuff" in it. If you just burn the firmware into the sillicon and that program has no way of updating itself, then you're good to go because both the company and the end user are stuck with the same level of control (In this context, "control" means "ability to make the computer parts run the code that you wish them to run")

If you include the firmware in a writable EEPROM, and no further checks for the update firmware besides checksums, you're also golden, because then both the new owner and you (OEM) can exercise the same level of control over it.

If, however, you decided to include signature checking using a public key burned in the sillicon, then and only then you would be violating this hypothetical law, because that creates a situation in which you, the OEM, can exercise more control than the device's legitimate owner after purchase.

So, to summarize, from the OEM's point of view under this law, less control is good, equal control is good, more control is bad.

I think this is what should be proposed as a new bill in U.S congress, although I have to admit the Open App Markets Act serves a great purpose as of right now for some specific devices.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#718

Think Apple has already seen the writing on the wall - both S. Korea & the US are now probably going to push back against the IAP restrictions, and they can / should do a couple of things, which might actually increase revenue. 1. Cut down the IAP commission to 15% for everyone. 2. Cut down the commission to 5% for those who pay for a Business Account, say at $5,000 a year. The thing is no customer wants to use any c…

I love the Apple subscription system for things like streaming services simply because it makes unsubscribing a one-click process. I’m much more likely to subscribe to something via the Apple store than I am through any in-app service.

As a counter point, I always avoid subscribing via the app as the prices are higher than if you subscribe via the website. Google One has this where you pay more to use the apple method.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#719
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you consider the Pareto nature of app store earnings, Apple's best move was to wait and be forced to make the change.

I agree. It also allows the judge to slap them without agreeing with the other side. Epic didn't get anything they really wanted. This change will not make much difference. No change to single app store model. As far as I can tell, Apple will have to allow communication in the app about payment through other means. That's it. I think it is likely that Apple will require apps to offer Apple payment as an option alongs…

> I would rather use Apple payment system. Lots of other people will also

You might be in this mindset because up until now almost only apps that nicely fit Apple’s rules have stayed in the AppStore. I hope this ruling and subsequent changes will being in more services that made no sense before but can at last come into the AppStore with their payment system.

I see this ruling as basically Apple forced to give everyone the same position that Netflix had to bargain hard. I actually hope this will be positive for Apple, with more activity, better user experience for their platform.

Re: Court issues permanent injunction in Epic vs. Apple case

#720

To be clear, I'm on the side of Epic here, but in rulings like this where it has been judged that someone did some wrong (just focusing on Epic breaking their contract) and the punishment is getting them to pay exactly as much as had they done the "right" thing, the expected value is always going to favour doing the "wrong" thing, as sometimes you won't get caught. Any fines or decisions like this should include the…

Very good point. I believe that the judge just gave a slap on the wrist to Epic Games with that fine (that's why it was equal to just the "back-pay") for breaking a contract (which is wrong, legally speaking.) I believe the judge did this (just a slap) because Epic was right and Apple was anti-competitive. I could be wrong though. I have very little knowledge of anti-competitive laws.

I'm honestly not sure, because it seems to me that contract disputes should be limited to making the other party whole. They are civil matters, not criminal ones, so why should there be additional punishment?
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