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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

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Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#651

Post by commandlinefan »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #416
tolmasky wrote: post #350

The more time passes, the more I'm convinced that the right strategy would have been to make the vaccines initially cost $35,000 a dose, so that the outcry would have been that the Illuminati was making it impossible for the common man to get access to these life-saving drugs. Then, after months of argumentation, people could have had the victory of having the vaccines "liberated" and offered for free, such that gett…

That's the Captain Cook approach. To get his crew to eat sauerkraut, which was thought to prevent scurvy, he started out by only serving it at the officers table. The crew then asked if they could have it too.

I immediately thought of Antoine Parmentier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine-Augustin_Parmentier) who was trying to get the potato accepted in France and hired armed guards to protect his potato field to convince people they were valuable... but let people steal as many as they wanted.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#652

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

exabrial wrote: post #601
drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

> "Arguing against vaccination" Stop. You're intentionally skewing what's being said and making the problem worse. People are against _forced_ medical procedures by a government. A small minority is anti-science, but you give them a voice every time YOU do what you just did.

extremely important to clarify that only a small minority of "people" are against vaccine mandates,

whereas the majority of people are not against vaccine mandates

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-mandate-work-poll...

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#653

Post by kuraudo »

plainnoodles wrote: post #463
mfer wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

Never send to know for whom the bell tolls. As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates. But as-is, normal people who took precautions to get vaccinated are being hurt by anti-vaxxers when they get an unrelated illness or injury (car wreck, infection, etc) and then suffer worse…

>As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates.

This argument falls flat when we do not require mandatory weight loss from other citizens. The point of the vaccine is not to protect oneself from taking up an icu bed, but to protect other people.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#654

Post by HWR_14 »

pandaman wrote: post #543
rmah wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a youth, most public schools mandated a variety of vaccinations. If you didn't get them, you couldn't go to school. Is that no longer the case?

When I was a youth vaccines gave immunity to their recipients, that doesn't seem to be a case now.

No, when you were a youth enough people were vaccinated that the RE dropped to almost nothing, meaning there were no breakouts. They never gave 100% immunity.

They were also more numerically effective at keeping people from turning into a carrier, but they had the benefits of decades of tuning.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#655

Post by [deleted] »

geofft wrote: post #639
ecommerceguy wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those floors are still closed Drew, and my sister is still pissed off about it. You've been on all of the floors in that hospital? >>because people were AFRAID TO GET COVID and expected to get it when going to a hospital. Wrong, one of the floors closed was the 7th floor where heart attack and stroke patients go. They closed due to lack of patients having heart attacks and strokes. These floors could be open right no…

From the link you provide: > In the midst of a pandemic, the advice from medical professionals to “stay home, save lives” may be preventing patients from seeking medical care when symptoms of stroke arise due to fear of contracting COVID-19. Anecdotal reports across the United States are highlighting missed care during the current COVID-19 pandemic... i.e., yes, "people are afraid to get covid and expect to get it wh…

[deleted]

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#656

Post by commandlinefan »

mfer wrote: post #429
robmccoll wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah what's next? Making other behaviors that have a small but established likelihood of endangering the lives of others or their property illegal at little to no cost to the liberty of an individual? Pretty soon I won't be able to drive my car under the influence, or without proper insurance, or while not wearing a seatbelt, or I won't be able to discharge my firearms in my 0.2 acre backyard in a suburban area. 650,…

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

> A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case

But if the vaccine protects you, and you have it, why do you care if I get it or not? By definition, the only people I could hurt are myself or other unvaccinated people.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#657

Post by kuraudo »

HWR_14 wrote: post #636
mfer wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

No one is asking that you get the vaccine. Go buy 50 acres and subsistence farm by yourself. Or do you mean you'd still want to clog up a hospital bed for two months if you get sick. Because I'm pretty sure that impacts everyone.

This argument implies that we should start mandating mandatory weight loss for the obese. The vaccine is about protecting other people, not hospital space.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#658

Post by [deleted] »

disneygibson wrote: post #403
1shooner wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> our ancestors sailed across the oceans into the unknown Some of our ancestors were almost completely wiped out from novel disease brought by those that crossed the oceans. They were probably also terrified.

No, it isn’t comparable, because those diseases wiped out 3/4 of the population. That obviously isn’t the case with COVID, even if our terrified-of-everything populace thinks it is.

[deleted]

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#659

Post by wikidani »

drewg123 wrote: post #616
commandlinefan wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> waiting for ICU beds Not saying this isn't happening, but the phrasing here is a little disingenuous - there are plenty of beds , just not enough doctors and nurses to staff them. And why is that? In many cases, it's because the doctors and nurses themselves refuse to take an experimental vaccine and are being furloughed or terminated.

You're the one being disingenuous. The vaccine is not experimental. Its FDA approved.

There are some serious issues with FDA approval,for example the potential conflict of interest with pharmaceutical companies providing funding to the same entity approving their drugs

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#660

Post by h2odragon »

_fat_santa wrote: post #243
version_five wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and support this. People want to conflate the issues of not believing in vaccines (or whatever words they like to put in peoples mouths) and believing in having to provide proof of a personal health situation all over the place. It's convenient to pretend that anyone who is against government and corporate overreach is an "anti-vaxxer" instead of actually engage with the issue.

I just hate that there seems to be zero nuance now on the topic. According to the media you're in one of two camps. Camp 1: Pro vaccine, pro mask, pro lockdown, pro doing anything and everything the government says. Camp 2: Anti vaxx, anti mask, anti lockdown, trump supporter, Jan 7th attendee, etc. And it seems that now more than ever, if you're not 10000% in Camp 1, you're automatically assumed to be in Camp 2

Can that "zero-tolerance" mindset be productively applied to any problem? We see it in a lot of places, and it never seems to achieve the goals it aims to serve.
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