OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#601

Post by exabrial » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

> "Arguing against vaccination"

Stop. You're intentionally skewing what's being said and making the problem worse.

People are against _forced_ medical procedures by a government.

A small minority is anti-science, but you give them a voice every time YOU do what you just did.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#602

Post by tomrod » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

peteradio wrote: post #511

tomrod wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are even more resistant to reinfection with the vaccine. Anti-vaccination enthusiasts have had a year to make their case. It's time to roll up sleeves for civic duty.

> Anti-vaccination enthusiasts k

More specifically, herd immunity is necessary for people who cannot receive the vaccine to be protected. These types of folks are often the immunocompromised.

Herd immunity kicks in when the proportion of folks with sufficient antibodies is high enough, formally modeled as H >= 1 - 1/R_0, where H is the herd immunity level and R_0 is the average rate of cases caused per each case. R_0 (or more appropriately R_t) is dependent both on the intrinsic attributes of the virus as well as behavior of the organisms the virus infects.

So ensuring a large population with strong, effective prevention is in the national interest, is in the evolutionary interest based on all available science, and is in the interests of vulnerable populations.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#603

Post by MandieD » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

disneygibson wrote: post #516

ramphastidae wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those ancestors would switch places with us in a heartbeat. You are romanticizing.

No, they wouldn’t, considering that they explicitly set up difficult lives for themselves according to their values. And no, you can’t read the minds of long dead people either. Is it really so difficult to consider that we live in a scared, lazy age?

Pretty sure my great^9 grandmother who never saw her parents again after leaving an impoverished village in Alsace for Louisiana, married some widower she’d never met, died of one of the epidemics that swept through coastal Louisiana on the regular in the 18th century, or her daughter (my great^8 grandmother) who was married a few months later at age 14 to an older man, pumped out at least 7 children, then died of another epidemic at 24 wouldn’t have minded my life of relative wealth, ease and personal freedom (college! Moving abroad but flying home each year! Marrying around 30! Having a kid only after I really, really wanted to! Vaccination against a new epidemic a mere 18 months after it started!)

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#604

Post by lolsal » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

ctrlp wrote: post #460

josho wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't spoken to an anti-vaxxer yet. Those that I've seen in the media have been completely irrational (5g/bill gates theories). So, I'm looking forward to learning from a rational person what their motivations are. What are your reasons to refuse a vaccine? Weren't you vaccinated as a child for polio & chicken pox? Why is this vaccine a hill to die on? Thanks.

Not every anti-mandate person is a anti-vax. Government mandates are a political issue. Depending on the country and its laws, some believe mandates are illegal and constitute government tyranny. They may value rule by law or autonomy over their bodies. They may choose to receive vaccine but don't want to be 'forced to choose'. Not every anti-covid-vax person is anti-other-vax. The mRNA vaccine is novel. Many believe…

You articulated my sentiments way better than I could, thank you.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#605

Post by pc86 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

ecommerceguy wrote: post #571

drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

My sister is a nurse in a "red" state. During Covid they CLOSED 3 entire floors of the Hospital due to inactivity, she was PISSED because those floors could have easily been used as overflow. And yes thay are "full" now because operational capacity has been significantly reduced. >>"I almost wish that the anti-vaxxers would just stick to their science-rejecting principles and reject all health care, not just the vacc…

Wishing consistency in thought?

Reread it. They're not wishing death on anyone. But the healthcare system is overloaded primarily due to people rejecting the vaccine that the healthcare system has been begging people to get for quite some time.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#606

Post by exabrial » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

tolmasky wrote: post #350

The more time passes, the more I'm convinced that the right strategy would have been to make the vaccines initially cost $35,000 a dose, so that the outcry would have been that the Illuminati was making it impossible for the common man to get access to these life-saving drugs. Then, after months of argumentation, people could have had the victory of having the vaccines "liberated" and offered for free, such that gett…

That actually was the original plan, ironically.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#607

Post by gilbetron » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

lax4ever wrote: post #523

UncleMeat wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are absolutely enormous anti-smoking adversing and education campaigns. Cigarettes are mandated by law to have very specific packaging that loudly lists the risk of death. Large taxes are placed on them. In a great many places you are not allowed to smoke in public. Smokers have higher health insurance premiums and cannot access certain kinds of medical care like various organ transplants. Selling a cigarette t…

The difference being that people's general livelihoods are not being affected by these campaigns and requirements. The choice is still available to people even if there are restrictions on use and distribution. That is not the case with the vaccine.

Go smoke where you work (assuming non-remote work!), and see if there are ramifications.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#608

Post by refurb » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

zhdc1 wrote: post #379

refurb wrote: post #197

Contrast this with Germany. Employers are asking for permission to confirm employee vaccine status and the govt is saying “no, you can’t do that”. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bosses-cant-ask-about-employee...

And yet, you can't get into a restaurant or cafe in Germany without a valid COVID-19 vaccination certificate or a negative test. The same is true for most EU member states.

That’s an important distinction though?

Get fired from your job? Bad

Can’t go out for a meal? Annoying

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#609

Post by grupthink » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

SergeAx wrote: post #439

drewg123 wrote: post #426

For those of you arguing against getting vaccinated, please go volunteer at a local hospital. I'm currently in the hospital in the "red" part of my purple state. I had an acute appendicitis, and had to wait in a temporary, crowded, understaffed holding area in the ER for over 18 hours before getting admitted for treatment. My roommate in the hospital has an infected foot, and waited over 24 hours to be admitted. He m…

But working in a hospital requires vaccination now, isn't it? Or even was required by many medical facilities before current events?

No, my sister is an RN at a hospital in Los Angeles and vaccinations are optional for her. She is vaccinated, but if she wasn't, she would have to get a covid test twice a week. A few of her co-workers complained to administration that they don't want to be vaccinated, but now also complain that they now must be poked in the nose semi-weekly.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#610

Post by clipradiowallet » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

plainnoodles wrote: post #463

mfer wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting element is my choice vs choices put on me. There is another angle people talk about... The building I work in was designed and built by others. Regulations mean they can't cut corners in their impact of me. A vaccine that protects me from getting the virus or getting a serious case. It's a difference between others work impacting my safety and my own choices impacting my safety. This is an area worth p…

Never send to know for whom the bell tolls. As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates. But as-is, normal people who took precautions to get vaccinated are being hurt by anti-vaxxers when they get an unrelated illness or injury (car wreck, infection, etc) and then suffer worse…

> As another comment said, if the unvaccinated were willing to stick to their "ideals" and die at home instead of an ICU bed, I would be a lot more amenable to arguments against mandates.

Can you extend this logic to other groups beyond "unvaccinated"? For example, imagine the ICU beds that would be unoccupied if people who smoke tobacco and drink alcohol chose to "die at home". As a society, we know both of these behaviors are detrimental to health, and yet there are people occupying ICU beds because of their decision to use those 2 substances. Slippery slope and whatnot.... health insurance premiums would also be a lot cheaper if my group health insurance plan wasn't subsidizing treatment for all my coworkers with lung cancer, emphysema, and liver failure.