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Python Is a Bad Programming Language

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Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#21

Post by [deleted] »

dragonwriter wrote: post #13
anschwa wrote: post #11

Whitespace is definitely a legitimate critique of python. The fact that people have learned to live with it or just ignore it is pretty irrelevant in my opinion. Significant whitespace means I can't copy+paste without introducing bugs or breaking the code. It means code formatting becomes more complex to automate. It's seriously the dumbest language feature to defend and should be pretty acceptable to admit was a mis…

> It means code formatting becomes more complex to automate No, it means it is both simpler to automate and less necessary, because syntactically correct code is already largely formatted.

[deleted]

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#22

Post by Dudeman112 »

willcipriano wrote: post #20
Dudeman112 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think there is a such a thing as a bad programming language, only bad programmers. Bollocks. A programming language is a thing that is created/engineered. As such it can be evaluated as well fitting for its purpose (aka being a good programming language) or being bad fitting for its purpose (aka a bad programming language). This reply makes no judgment on the validity of the arguments present in the article…

To me programming is more of an art than a science. To find a corollary what are some bad artistic mediums? What is a bad human language to write poetry in, or a novel?

>programming is more of an art than a science

Yes, that is a problem and one of the reasons why so much of the tooling is crap and so many projects fail.

If we are still here half a millennium from now, hopefully professional programming will start looking more like actual engineering.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#23

Post by SettembreNero »

I, too, think Python has some very bad "design" choices, but the article completely misses them. Whitespace, dynamic typing and stuff like that are almost completely a matter of taste / use case, while patchwork-y and mostly incoherent data collections, convoluted functional support, messy package dependencies, frequent breakages between versions and so on are what often makes python development a PITA.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#24

Post by wodenokoto »

Can someone explain to me what the problem with these things are?

Like, why is he complaining that he has to add a value to a variable? If he doesn’t want the variable created during init of an object then don’t create it.

And what exactly is the problem with self? I’m a bit unsure what he is mad about.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#25

Post by dragonwriter »

reportgunner wrote: post #8

I honestly don't get it. Why do people who don't write in python mind that I write in python? I don't mind that they don't write in python.

> I honestly don't get it. Why do people who don't write in python mind that I write in python?

Marketability of skills tied to particular technology (e.g., specific progranming language) is directly tied to the relative demand for the technology. They don't care if you program in Python, they care if decision makers choose Python for companies. A whole lot of the debate over the merits of technologies isn't really about technical merit, its about people promoting their own employability.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#26

Post by neonihil »

Meaningless vent with very little substance.

White space issue: code needs to be well formatted. In Python, it can not be well formatted.

Self: the author hasn’t heard of class or static methods, apparently. Explicit scoping is very welcome. Especially when implementing metaclasses or descriptors. By the way: the name “self” is convention. The “self pointer” (khm, that’s why it’s called self) is passed as the first positional argument. If you call it rabbit, then you can use rabbit.foobar in your code.

Object orientation: “Ugly” is not an argument. Python has the most comprehensive and complete OOP implementation. (It even supports multiple inheritance with diamond bases), yet it has the simplest syntax ever. Not sure what the fuss is about.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#27

Post by Narann »

> Python is a case study in how people will try to live with something, adapt to it, and rationalize their love of it, warts and all, instead of throwing it out and finding something better.

This article is full of anger against a language and the peoples using it. Like if liking Python is being a dumb programmer.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#28

Post by cuttlefisch »

pestatije wrote: post #9
57844743385 wrote: post #3

Meh. Weak criticisms. Google didn’t do anything to push pythons popularity in the community. If anything it held it back being so committed to version 2. White space is a non issue. At best it ensures readability and consistent structure. At worst it’s unimportant. The thing about version 2 versus version 3 is old news, everyone uses version 3, move in and shuddup about it. Typing has received more significance recen…

White space is definitely an issue. It was an issue for Guido from day one, and he brought that issue to the rest of us just because he could.

Agreed that whitespace requires an adjustment period, but editors from vanilla VI on servers, to your choice editor handle whitespace with very little issues.

Add in automatic formatting and the amount of issues arising from indentation falls further; add in linting & it's really not an issue.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#29

Post by wingineer »

anschwa wrote: post #11

Whitespace is definitely a legitimate critique of python. The fact that people have learned to live with it or just ignore it is pretty irrelevant in my opinion. Significant whitespace means I can't copy+paste without introducing bugs or breaking the code. It means code formatting becomes more complex to automate. It's seriously the dumbest language feature to defend and should be pretty acceptable to admit was a mis…

I agree, as someone who likes a lot about Python (particularly its wide selection of libraries), the whitespace sensitivity is annoying.

However, it seems like part of the language that could conceivably be removed in future versions if defending it wasn't such a priority for many.

Re: Python Is a Bad Programming Language

#30

Post by weedpeg »

self -> python is verbose Really? Anyone who has written code in Java or C# knows python is much more succinct compared to them.

Whitespace cannot be seen hence do not use them You are not expected to see them. you are expected to view the indentation and make sure it is consistent. This forces programs to be easier to read.

static typing > Dynamic typing OK, i agree that as programs grow large, static typing allows to catch many bugs early enough. But nowadays void * casting of pointer in C is considered bad, earlier it was ok. The point is languages improve over time (JS looking at you) and with typing support in python 3.5+, this problem is very much fixed.

No constants I am not writing python for 10 years, and simple CONST_ prefix does the job.

And no i'm not being hostile or condescending while responding :P

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