511–520 of 1001 posts
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More than 100 million (maybe closer to 150 million) Americans are estimated to have recovered already and have earned their immunity the hard way. Tell me why that doesn't count.
Because they are even more resistant to reinfection with the vaccine. Anti-vaccination enthusiasts have had a year to make their case. It's time to roll up sleeves for civic duty.
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The average lifespan for the period you are describing (say, 1492-ish since we're talking about sailing) was their mid-thirties (and probably lower for the people that actually got on those boats). So I think I like our strategy better. And it's not even about "but at least they truly lived !", their lives were miserable. It's a lot easier to "face the unknown" when the "known" is itself often religious persecution,…
That wasn’t the average lifespan of people who reached adulthood. Infant mortality was simply higher.
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I never understand this whole "99% survival rate" being presented as if that's low. I don't know about you, but if I'm around something that has a 1 in 100 chance of killing me, I'm going to do everything I can to not let it, because those are NOT low odds. It also conveniently ignores the known and unknown long-haul effects from Covid, which impacts a significant percentage (20%?). I, for one, like staying in relati…
Like I said, your ancestors had 99% more courage and confidence in the face of danger you can’t even begin to imagine. But, we are a terrified people and so we continue to build a safety space cocoon around ourselves.
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When I was a youth, most public schools mandated a variety of vaccinations. If you didn't get them, you couldn't go to school. Is that no longer the case?
In the US, all 50 states have some type of mandatory vaccination for public schools ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy_in_the_Unit... ). Most, but not all, allow religious or similar exemptions; some (including California) only allow medical exemptions. I think your point--which is spot-on--is that a lot of the outraged reactions appear to be from people who are unaware (or unwilling to acknowledge) t…
Second, two of the three available are still under EUA, and the one that is approved is of a new type of vaccine that became approved through a very unconventional route, which has some folks cautious. Those other vaccines you mention are well-established and have been proven over time and through clinical testing to be safe and effective. COVID vaccines have proven to be only effective at reducing reactions, but not very effective at reducing spread.
Note that a typical clinical trial lasts years[0] - phase II usually takes 2-3 years and phase III takes an additional 2-4 years. We've had these vaccines for less than one year; if this was a typical vaccine, it'd be only part-way through phase II trials.
And now it's mandated by the government; get this shot, some of which are using new technology, that has had shortened clinical trials or lose your livelihood (because, at $14k per infraction, I don't see many large companies bothering to offer testing as an alternative unless it's for the CEO or other executives; it's just too much liability for an easily-replaceable lower-wage employee).
> but the unwillingness to acknowledge precedent is bizarre
That's because your precedent isn't an exact match, and has had easy alternatives and ways to opt-out.
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That case was against a law and not against an executive order. I'm tired of presidents ruling by decree - this should stop long time ago but it's getting worse with every president.
It's the only way to get anything done since the senate doesn't function without a super-majority.
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Like I said, your ancestors had 99% more courage and confidence in the face of danger you can’t even begin to imagine. But, we are a terrified people and so we continue to build a safety space cocoon around ourselves.
And those ancestors would switch places with us in a heartbeat. You are romanticizing.
And no, you can’t read the minds of long dead people either.
Is it really so difficult to consider that we live in a scared, lazy age?
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Arguments for thinking of the burnt-out healthcare professionals are tired and miss the forest for the trees. There are many reasons for healthcare professionals feeling burnt-out that pre-date Covid and were exacerbated by it. Where were your tears for them then? You clearly don't value your liberty. (Maybe you don't even understand what it means, given your mockery.) Liberty refers to your right to govern yourself.…
The liberty you think ever existed never did, look around. All the "freedom" advocates against the vax just pick and choose how they define freedom. There's no place in the world you can live as a sovereign citizen, so I'd suggest you get on board or buy a boat and live out on open water because that's the only place you'll be "free".
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When I was a youth, most public schools mandated a variety of vaccinations. If you didn't get them, you couldn't go to school. Is that no longer the case?
In the US, all 50 states have some type of mandatory vaccination for public schools ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy_in_the_Unit... ). Most, but not all, allow religious or similar exemptions; some (including California) only allow medical exemptions. I think your point--which is spot-on--is that a lot of the outraged reactions appear to be from people who are unaware (or unwilling to acknowledge) t…
I think this is a strawman argument as virtually everybody is aware of past childhood vaccine requirements and acknowledges that they existed for a long time.
What might make this Covid vaccination and decision process different from those in many peoples' eyes is that:
* Past vaccines took years of development and testing before being applied to the public and were not rushed through any approval process. Covid vaccines in contrast use a new technology, were rushed through the approval process in a political process, and in fact are still technically in clinical trials. To many people, not enough time has passed to see about any possible long-term health impacts, fertility problems, or other issues. And obviously, discussions of short-term health problems in social media are suppressed or minimized too. Personally, I would argue that trying to vaccinate all people (especially the young) for such a low individual risk is one of the most irresponsible risk-management decisions in human history.
* Dr. Fauci and other health experts have spent much of the last 18 months either lying (remember experts insisting that masks are pointless before doing a 180) or being wrong about many things. Is it a wonder that people don't trust them?
* The media is the boy who cried wolf. They spent the last 5 years hyperventilating about Orange Man to the point that anything they say now is viewed through a partisan lens. Sorry, but if public trust is frittered away on political motives, don't cry now that you're telling the truth this time.
* The medical establishment seemed desperately against even trying alternative medical treatments (HCQ, Ivermectin) due to the vaccines emergency use authorization being tied to no treatments being available. How would a normal person react to the idea that there's a possible alternative treatment from a cheap already tested drug? You'd express some hope and be willing to try it, but express doubts about the treatments due to the limited studies available that don't show good enough results. Instead, we get a pile of propaganda labeling a legitimate medical drug as only a "horse dewormer".
* The focus is not on health and safety (which should be the goal), but only vaccination. Millions of people have had Covid and have natural antibodies: why isn't Covid antibody testing a suitable substitute for vaccination? Has even one health leader recommended steps to lose weight and get some sunshine for instance despite the clear worse Covid health outcomes for fat people with Vitamin D deficiencies? Or take NYC's draconian vaccine requirements to visit a ball game as an example. You're not allowed to attend a game if you're not fully vaccinated, but you can walk from the ballpark to a vaccination clinic, get "the jab (TM)", and immediately go attend the same ballgame even though the science says you're not immune. Everything about public policy is oddly specific about urging vaccines and incredibly creepy right now.
I was commenting to a critical comment that was, in my opinion, controversial but acceptable. I don't know who flagged it and why, and it's now disappeared. Please, please, please: I'm the most provax person out there, but limiting the contrary voices won't lead this conversation anywhere constructive. The comment was saying the the policies against Covid so far were aimed at the distruction of normal. Here's what I…
The connection between data and policy is mostly fictional, other than it is used to support chosen narratives, and not to illuminate truth. I look at the resistance as a human instinct, where some can convert it to articulated objections and clearly, and others have limited tools, but what they have in common is a clear and united desire.
Anyone who knows anything about data (let alone govt) knows that data at very best only loosely informs policy decisions, it does not make them. Leaders may hide behind it, but they ignore it just as often if not moreso, and that these people reject data as censored, cherry picked, fudged, fabricated, is consistent with how policymakers handle it.
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If you cannot sue the maker of the vaccine, enterprising lawyers will sue the deepest pockets involved in making you get vaccinated.
They'll run up against OHSA's sovereign immunity pretty fast here.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/23/lawsuit-o...