Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

aws.amazon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 111 posts

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#101

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #100
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing employees to pee in bottles is pretty bad. Yes it is(Like dozens of other things listed in that Wiki), But I didn't ask that. I wanted to know how do you suggest we strike at 'the weakness of Amazon' to fix it (Like you suggested) that it treats it's employees with dignity and respect after that? Because IMO if there's anything, It could have been done when Amazon's mistreatment of its workers surfaced way…

> I wanted to know how do you suggest we strike at 'the weakness of Amazon' to fix it (Like you suggested) that it treats it's employees with dignity and respect after that? You call them out for the individual wrongs like those listed on the Wikipedia page. Vote with your wallet. Debate and discuss. > They're too big for any punishments I don't agree with that. No company survives forever. > Jack Ma & China The US i…

> You call them out for the individual wrongs like those listed on the Wikipedia page. Vote with your wallet. Debate and discuss.

It's been happening at least since 2001, Starting with layoffs and now it has to come to -

> Forcing employees to pee in bottles is pretty bad.

> No company survives forever.

I agree, 'East India company' just survived for 273 years and people who ever affected by it are still suffering several generations later.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#102

Post by unityByFreedom »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #101
unityByFreedom wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wanted to know how do you suggest we strike at 'the weakness of Amazon' to fix it (Like you suggested) that it treats it's employees with dignity and respect after that? You call them out for the individual wrongs like those listed on the Wikipedia page. Vote with your wallet. Debate and discuss. > They're too big for any punishments I don't agree with that. No company survives forever. > Jack Ma & China The US i…

> You call them out for the individual wrongs like those listed on the Wikipedia page. Vote with your wallet. Debate and discuss. It's been happening at least since 2001, Starting with layoffs and now it has to come to - > Forcing employees to pee in bottles is pretty bad. > No company survives forever. I agree, 'East India company' just survived for 273 years and people who ever affected by it are still suffering se…

The East India Company was rightly criticized for holding trade monopolies that were later abolished. It's fair to consider whether a company the size of Amazon also has some monopolies and to ask the FTC to investigate or act.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#103

Post by deeblering4 »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #94
deeblering4 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's in color. In this case green.

That's just as myopic. We all do many things daily with no expectation of monetary reward.

This was never about what we all do. The topic was Amazon OpenSearch.

If you are arguing that Amazon has no expectation of monetary reward, then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you!

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#104

Post by binarymax »

_msw_ wrote: post #91
binarymax wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but the point about divergence stands! Elastic won’t be copying the OpenDistro KNN API.

It is pretty clear to me that Elastic is planning to build their ANN features differently than OpenDistro's k-NN implementation, or other plugins modules that extend Easticsearch in similar ways. They now will build on the Apache Lucene capabilities that were collaboratively built "upstream" by a number of individuals, some that work for Amazon and some that work for Elastic. From the linked issue, it seemed that the…

"it should be possible to implement an Open Source version of the functionality".

Elasticsearch is still open source...just not in a license that Amazon can take advantage of.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#105

Post by ocdnix »

atonse wrote: post #7
simlevesque wrote: post #3

I changed from AWS managed ElasticSearch to Elastic.co a couple of months ago. Should have done it sooner.

Why? Tech or on principle? We are using Amazon ES but leaves a lot to be desired. But I don’t know how much of that is just ES and how much is Amazon

What pain points do you see with Amazon ES, if I may ask? I'm considering migrating to it.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#106

Post by jka »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #95
jka wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a solid and forward-looking understanding of the internal cultures of both Elastic (the company) and also the specific team(s) at Amazon that will be managing the future of Elasticsearch and OpenSearch, respectively, I think it's too early to tell who will end up being the better steward of the search commons here. Also worth noting that other open-source search engines exist out there; it's entirely possible…

> Without a solid and forward-looking understanding of the internal cultures of both Elastic (the company) and also the specific team(s) at Amazon that will be managing the future of Elasticsearch and OpenSearch, respectively, I think it's too early to tell who will end up being the better steward of the search commons here. Amazon is the better steward of open sourced Elastic Search, hands down, because nobody else…

> it appears that right now Elastic is on its heals while Amazon is driving forward

Perhaps - what are the commit/accepted contribution rates for the two projects like at the moment? (I'm not saying that's a perfect metric, but it could provide some information)

> Which open-source search engines do you think are competitive?

MeiliSearch[1] is an impressive-looking candidate. Perhaps two of the stronger innovations of Elasticsearch were horizontal scalability and the ability to pass documents to it over-the-network (basically, the ability to curl a JSON document and instantly have it be searchable -- and I'll admit/credit that Solr may have gotten there first with XML documents). Those two features make it easy to get started, and easy to scale up if needed (a common architect's concern).

[1] - https://github.com/meilisearch/MeiliSearch

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#107

Post by unityByFreedom »

deeblering4 wrote: post #103
unityByFreedom wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just as myopic. We all do many things daily with no expectation of monetary reward.

This was never about what we all do. The topic was Amazon OpenSearch. If you are arguing that Amazon has no expectation of monetary reward, then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you!

It's still myopic to say everything Amazon does is for the greenback. Engineers at Amazon likely pushed for OpenSearch because it provides personal growth to work on open products. Working on closed source may mean you can't bring as much knowledge to another job. It's likely less people will use your work and that may be less satisfying. You may like to switch jobs for reasons other than money. And to retain employees, Amazon may agree to allow employees work on open source.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#108

Post by unityByFreedom »

jka wrote: post #106
unityByFreedom wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without a solid and forward-looking understanding of the internal cultures of both Elastic (the company) and also the specific team(s) at Amazon that will be managing the future of Elasticsearch and OpenSearch, respectively, I think it's too early to tell who will end up being the better steward of the search commons here. Amazon is the better steward of open sourced Elastic Search, hands down, because nobody else…

> it appears that right now Elastic is on its heals while Amazon is driving forward Perhaps - what are the commit/accepted contribution rates for the two projects like at the moment? (I'm not saying that's a perfect metric, but it could provide some information) > Which open-source search engines do you think are competitive? MeiliSearch[1] is an impressive-looking candidate. Perhaps two of the stronger innovations o…

Maybe. That one distinguishes itself from Elastic and hasn't set its sights on big data.

> Elasticsearch is very powerful when it comes to massive datasets; it can quickly scale horizontally and allows one to build complex queries. The flipside of that is that nothing is easy. Even if all you need is simple search functionality that handles typos, synonyms, or filters, you're looking at hours of training, documentation, and configuration.

Spending some hours learning a new tool doesn't seem so bad to me when I'll be working with it as part of my product.

> For big tech companies dealing with enormous logs, Elasticsearch might make sense. But when it comes to medium-size datasets (i.e. less than five million rows) and smaller apps, it simply isn’t right for the job. Nonetheless, since no open-source alternative has historically been available, developers still go for Elastic as their default solution and wind up losing a disproportionate amount of time on setup and training.

> MeiliSearch is not made to search through billions of large text files or parse complex queries.

https://blog.meilisearch.com/why-should-you-use-meilisearch-...

I'm not sure I'd like to assume that my dataset will never grow. This is kind of like using training wheels. Some may find it helpful but I don't think it will grow to the widespread adoption Elastic has seen without a change of vision.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#109

Post by jabo »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #95
jka wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a solid and forward-looking understanding of the internal cultures of both Elastic (the company) and also the specific team(s) at Amazon that will be managing the future of Elasticsearch and OpenSearch, respectively, I think it's too early to tell who will end up being the better steward of the search commons here. Also worth noting that other open-source search engines exist out there; it's entirely possible…

> Without a solid and forward-looking understanding of the internal cultures of both Elastic (the company) and also the specific team(s) at Amazon that will be managing the future of Elasticsearch and OpenSearch, respectively, I think it's too early to tell who will end up being the better steward of the search commons here. Amazon is the better steward of open sourced Elastic Search, hands down, because nobody else…

> Which open-source search engines do you think are competitive?

I work on an open source search engine called Typesense: https://typesense.org/

I'm biased, but I'd like to think that when it comes to site/app search, Typesense is quite competitive to Elasticsearch. Of course, ES has tons of features and configuration options, which is a blessing and a curse in terms of complexity and learning curve, so I wouldn't want to claim feature parity. But in terms of getting a good out-of-the-box search solution that works well for most use-cases and is easy to deploy and scale, I'm hoping for Typesense to be that go to.

I recently put this comparison matrix together: https://typesense.org/typesense-vs-algolia-vs-elasticsearch-...

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#110

Post by ycomb9 »

pritambaral wrote: post #78
jusonchan81 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a ton of work on top of Lucene. And Lucene is still OSS. So yes what Amazon is doing is stealing Elastic’s work. I’m sure this will change how every other company is the OSS world will operate from now on. CockroachDB for example is already preventing a monopoly like Amazon from taking over.

> There is a ton of work on top of Lucene. 1. All of which is useless without Lucene. In fact, it wouldn't have been possible without Lucene. Thus, by your own twisted argument, Elastic "stole" Lucene's work. 2. Not all of the code in ElasticSearch is written by Elastic. Co. It's not their sole codebase. They have no monopoly on it. Maybe if they never took in contributions from others, but they did. > And Lucene is…

CockroachDB is doing the right thing and I bet ES would have done it much sooner if they had any clue that Amazon is going to screw the small guy.

Also your arguments doesn't make any sense. Lucene is still OSS and OpenSearch is not Lucene but built of Elastic code. They didn't rebuild everything from scratch but literally used the code Elastic wrote.

No one argued OpenSearch is not OSS.

And sorry - if you think Amazon as a company is not screwing the small guy, I feel sorry for you.

Post reply on HN