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A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

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Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#121

Post by lrae »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #81
lrae wrote: post #2

I didn't want to editorialize the original title, but to add to it: 1) The insult used was "pimmel", german for "dick". 2) According to netzpolitik.org, the offender was summoned by the police before that, did show up, and did confirm there that it was his account. https://netzpolitik.org/2021/andy-grote-was-fuer-eine-pimmel... [german]

> I didn't want to editorialize the original title Somebody needs to - the title on Hacker News says the opposite of what the article title says. HN: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then raided his house. Reality: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then had his house raided by the police.

Yeah, didn't even realize earlier that something ate the Police. Can't edit it myself anymore, though. Should've editorialized it after all and put more context into it, wouldn't have happened then.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#122

Post by slapfrog »

cirrus3 wrote: post #119
slapfrog wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think either necessarily requires the other, in either circumstance?

both-sider showed up, welcome, did you have something to contribute?

I'm pointing out a false dichotomy, why do we have to "pick our poison"? Can you explain why I should pick one? I don't want to take any poison. I want free speech and I want universal healthcare. I don't want one or the other; that's moronic. One does not preclude the other, so I want both.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#123

Post by swiley »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #83
paranoidrobot wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree. I can only assume you're referring to the US's Constitution. Rights that are apparently guaranteed by the US Constitution are routinely ignored by all levels of US Government. You may get your day in court, you may even have the court rule in your favour. That does not mean you're made whole, or that the governm…

Rights do not emenate from a dusty scrap of parchment a few hundred years ago. They are immutable.

The constitution carries more weight than you think: the highest governments in the US are the states which delegate their power to DC via the constitution. It’s a contract, and when violated the power is removed.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#124

Post by kybernetyk »

gewa wrote: post #26

As a German I have to emphasize that this has no support at all in Germany. The uproar was huge today and its seen as a misuse of power by the politician. Especially as he is not acting as a politician but as representative of the public office of interior. The search warrant needs to be issued by a judge and I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened. I would not be surprised if he will be forced…

As a German I have to say: this happens all the time. By this I mean police raids for minuscule infractions.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#125

Post by DenisM »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #81
lrae wrote: post #2

I didn't want to editorialize the original title, but to add to it: 1) The insult used was "pimmel", german for "dick". 2) According to netzpolitik.org, the offender was summoned by the police before that, did show up, and did confirm there that it was his account. https://netzpolitik.org/2021/andy-grote-was-fuer-eine-pimmel... [german]

> I didn't want to editorialize the original title Somebody needs to - the title on Hacker News says the opposite of what the article title says. HN: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then raided his house. Reality: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then had his house raided by the police.

German politician orders raid on the house of his foul-mouthed opponent.

Kids these days…

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#126

Post by kybernetyk »

gewa wrote: post #117
AmericanChopper wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened It happened because you allowed your politicians to pass laws that regulate allowable speech, as many other countries have done. I’m sure it was controversial, but most likely also had a considerable amount of support from people who didn’t like the kinds of speech they thought this would criminalize. A distinctive feature of this case is that it has cr…

It doesn't seem like you are very familiar with German politics or culture, but this is definitely an outlier. Freedom of speech is a central part of our constitution. Defamation is one of the very few ways and enforcement and interpretation is mostly restricted to defamation of policemen. This is the reason why this has resulted in an outcry as the proportionality does not respond to the interpretation how defamatio…

Freedom of speech is non-existent in Germany. It’s like calling North Korea democratic.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#127

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

barbazoo wrote: post #91
aerosmile wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. It was a total shock to me to arrive in the States and hear my cab driver unload on the US President at the time. He really wasn't choosing his words very carefully, to the point that I had to wonder if this was some kind of a test by the INS. I still chuckle today about how my views have changed since then, and how much more comfortab…

> It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. Is that a fact? That's news to me. You might not hear as much "unloading" in Germany simply because it's not yet as polarized as it is in the US but certainly there wouldn't be any repercussions as far as I'm aware. What exactly are you talking about?

Until recently you couldn't insult any head of state in Germany and still can't insult the German leader.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#128

Post by AmericanChopper »

gewa wrote: post #117
AmericanChopper wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened It happened because you allowed your politicians to pass laws that regulate allowable speech, as many other countries have done. I’m sure it was controversial, but most likely also had a considerable amount of support from people who didn’t like the kinds of speech they thought this would criminalize. A distinctive feature of this case is that it has cr…

It doesn't seem like you are very familiar with German politics or culture, but this is definitely an outlier. Freedom of speech is a central part of our constitution. Defamation is one of the very few ways and enforcement and interpretation is mostly restricted to defamation of policemen. This is the reason why this has resulted in an outcry as the proportionality does not respond to the interpretation how defamatio…

I’m sure as a member of that culture, your opinions are opinions are not at all influenced by any number of different political, nationalistic or cultural biases. But from the perspective of an outsider, you have all of the same criminal statutes against speech that most other western democracies have been gradually implementing. The only thing that’s slightly different about Germany, is that you also have defamation laws that are more typical of 3rd world country, like say Thailand.

I’m sure the values of free speech are important to Germans, but much like in the UK or any number of other of places, those values haven’t been preserved in legislation, and you’ve let yourself slowly compromise them away over a number of decades.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#129

Post by calvinmorrison »

swiley wrote: post #123
calvinmorrison wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rights do not emenate from a dusty scrap of parchment a few hundred years ago. They are immutable.

The constitution carries more weight than you think: the highest governments in the US are the states which delegate their power to DC via the constitution. It’s a contract, and when violated the power is removed.

Please sir show me the contract Americans have signed without duress or coercion. Simply put all governments exist via the rule of force and individual sovereignty does not depent on despots in power.

Re: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house

#130

Post by aerosmile »

barbazoo wrote: post #91
aerosmile wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. It was a total shock to me to arrive in the States and hear my cab driver unload on the US President at the time. He really wasn't choosing his words very carefully, to the point that I had to wonder if this was some kind of a test by the INS. I still chuckle today about how my views have changed since then, and how much more comfortab…

> It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. Is that a fact? That's news to me. You might not hear as much "unloading" in Germany simply because it's not yet as polarized as it is in the US but certainly there wouldn't be any repercussions as far as I'm aware. What exactly are you talking about?

Elsewhere in this thread you will find multiple references to a 150-year old law in Germany that explicitly protects "people's personal honor."
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