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Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

sociology.ucsc.edu

181–190 of 207 posts

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#181

Terrible writing. I'll sum it up: hard working people in the bottom half of the "top 1%" are not evil power-brokers but the most successful professionals. You have to look at the top 0.5 or top 0.1% (I'd argue that even 0.1% is generous) before engaging "the corridors of power", which consists of financial and real estate elites as well as contractors exploiting corrupt government officials. Is this news? A more inte…

> Is this news?

No. But the sum-up is not what makes this article good. What makes it good are the details about where the wealth comes from and what the people in the various segments are actually doing.

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point of the article, which is that many in the top 0.1% got there from some form of self-dealing. His argument is that they are profiting from their position in the economy rather than from the value they add. And by position, he doesn't mean nearness to the money press. I think he means nearness to the center of wealth and power, which at the moment happens to be the financial industry. > This is wh…

The self-dealing by the banks since 2008 has been almost wholly underwritten by the Fed and the Treasury. Beyond TARP there are myriad guarantees, lending programs, and regulatory exemptions, all designed to provide the banks with greater profit and allowing them to offload risk, usually to the Fed or the taxpayer. Indeed, if you look closely, much of the "profit" in the banking system today is coming from banks borr…

Almost.

> [programs are] designed to provide the banks with greater profit and allowing them to offload risk

Yes, the Fed is essentially paying the banks to loan money. It's not because the Fed is corrupt, though. It's because that's how bad the economy is.

Normally, banks will happily lend money. But when the risk of default is greater, as it is in a recession, banks are stingy with loans: they only loan to those with better credit-- and at a higher interest rate.

Bank liquidity is so tight right now (yes, it's their own fault) and the economic outlook so dim that if they had their druthers, banks wouldn't lend at all. If that happened, the economy would have an even worse outlook.

Luckily, the Fed can encourage banks to lend by giving them a discount on money (usually around 0.25%). Right now, however, the Fed can't give a discount because the rate is already at 0%. Thus, the present situation of the Fed basically throwing money at the banks, begging them to lend it out to the broader economy.

This is what is known as an edge case.

Don't like it? Join the club. What's happened since 2008 has sickened the remaining responsible, ethical folks managing the economy. But it's not right to impugn the Fed with the actions of a few irresponsible investment banks. If you read Sorkin's account in Too Big to Fail it's plain to see how Paulson and Geithner's actions amounted to making the best of a bad situation. In their case, it's important to distinguish between the appearance of impropriety and actual impropriety.

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self-dealing by the banks since 2008 has been almost wholly underwritten by the Fed and the Treasury. Beyond TARP there are myriad guarantees, lending programs, and regulatory exemptions, all designed to provide the banks with greater profit and allowing them to offload risk, usually to the Fed or the taxpayer. Indeed, if you look closely, much of the "profit" in the banking system today is coming from banks borr…

Almost. > [programs are] designed to provide the banks with greater profit and allowing them to offload risk Yes, the Fed is essentially paying the banks to loan money. It's not because the Fed is corrupt, though. It's because that's how bad the economy is. Normally, banks will happily lend money. But when the risk of default is greater, as it is in a recession, banks are stingy with loans: they only loan to those wi…

"Thus, the present situation of the Fed basically throwing money at the banks, begging them to lend it out to the broader economy."

Why doesn't the government just eliminate the middleman and lend the money out to "the broader economy" themselves?

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#184
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She sold her stock, which represented ownership of a business. If Mark Zuckerberg sold all his "stock" in Facebook, that doesn't mean he made his money from the financial services industry. The majority of wealthy people are wealthy by equity (ownership of a business), not from annual income. If the author used traders as an example of people making money on stocks, that would be an argument more inline with his thes…

The retail bank in no way makes Joe Average far richer than he already is by his own efforts. And I don't think those Russian billionaires invested in Facebook just because they were yawning at the thought of depositing the money in a bank and the boring routine of such a transaction. They all expect huge capital gains and the pump-and-dump institutional machinery of Wall Street is the instrumental system for this.

My point was the author's claim that the top of the top 1% is "involved in the financial services industry" is meaningless because of how he defines it. The only people who don't fit his description would be salaried employees.

To address your points - you're ignoring the difference in financial goals and economies of scale.

Joe is an employee. So his goal is to preserve the capital he earns, which is a service the retail bank offers. He earns a paltry interest on his money because 1. the bank lends his cash out very conservatively, and 2. he's not paying for the service of having it actively managed by a professional.

Rich people can not only afford professional money management, but very wealthy ones typical have access to higher quality investment vehicles than less wealthy rich. And since they have more capital (that they don't need) than Joe does, they tend to tolerate more risks. They also tend to get the rewards of that risk when its professionally managed.

At that scale of money, investment can have positive externalities. The capital invested in Facebook, Google, Apple, etc directly helped create jobs and expand the technology sector. Joe's money did comparatively little. Both are rewarded for their proportional economic impact. Capital gains is an incentive to keep rich people from parking their cash at a retail bank. Whether it works 100% effectively is definitely up for debate. But the general idea is that their cash can be deployed in a way that not only makes the rich richer, but the rest of society as well.

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#185
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I wanted to point out that the total amount of debt can be larger than the total amount of (physical) money.

I realize that the amount of debt can be larger than the total amount of money. In fact given every dollar in existence is on loan from the federal reserve the total amount of debt will always be higher than the total number of dollars in the system by design. The question is, how does the system not implode under the massive amount of debt that is ever increasing?

I found the following article: http://hiwaay.net/~becraft/FRS-myth.htm#hd25

Apparently the Fed's revenue is not 'destroyed' but transferred to the Treasury.

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#186

Terrible writing. I'll sum it up: hard working people in the bottom half of the "top 1%" are not evil power-brokers but the most successful professionals. You have to look at the top 0.5 or top 0.1% (I'd argue that even 0.1% is generous) before engaging "the corridors of power", which consists of financial and real estate elites as well as contractors exploiting corrupt government officials. Is this news? A more inte…

"The French revolutionary thought leaders were wealthy salon denizens, although far from the court at Versailles, and therefore increasingly out-of-power as the clouds darkened over France. History describes such revolutionaries, radicals, and agitators as "middle class" in hindsight (they're our heroes, and the U.S. associates "middle class" reflexively with virtue) but these people did, in fact, come overwhelmingly…

Correct. Only in relatively recent times has the distinction "class" become solely delineated by income or wealth.

Wealth has always been a big part of it, but throughout much of human history, wealth didn't create class; class created wealth. Your access to the monarch or ruling body granted you certain monopolistic privileges and land, from which you derived enormous wealth. But the wealth was the byproduct of, and not the generator of, class. (In fact, many extremely wealthy people, such as successful merchants and traders, were nevertheless denied elite class status because their class ranking had been fixed at birth).

This equation was turned on its head to some extent by the industrial revolution. This was the first time in history when the wealth generated by industry and trade began to dwarf the wealth generated by land ownership and agriculture on a massive and undeniable scale -- thereby wrenching power from the nobles/landowners, and placing it in the hands of newly minted industrialists. But even in the following century, it took a long while for wealth and social class to become thoroughly decoupled, and then reassembled in a different way.

What's happening now in America is that we're once again returning to a system where parentage and class beget wealth, which fixes class, which then repeats with the next generation. There are always notable exceptions to the rule, and these exceptions are held up in support of the "American Dream." But they are very clearly the exceptions. (And, in a surprising many of those rags-to-riches stories, a closer examination of the events behind the narrative often reveals that the "rags" origins were exaggerrated to varying degrees).

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think your right. I've been in Bangalore for 2 months and its hard to decide where I have a better quality of life. Here I can rent a brand new 3 bedroom with gym and swimming pool for $400. Driver for $200 a month. Hospitals are cheaper and about as well equipped. You get all channels including HBO for $5 a month. Savings rate in a CD is 10%. With the rampant unemployment in the US - I cant see why you would…

Remember we're talking about the top 1% or 0.1% of the population here. The unemployment rate simply doesn't enter their quality of life equation. But quality of life is a big deal for rich people. There are a number of surveys (Mercer, Economist, International Living etc) that rank countries according to quality of life factors and it's always the same places at the top of the list: Western Europe, Australia and New…

If we are talking the top 1% then they can buy a building in Bangalore and put a helipad on it to fly them to the airport where they can travel wherever they want.

Ambani bought himself a building and a helipad to commute to his office. That way you've fixed the commute problem too.

Bangalore weather is also pretty awesome. I wish I had my kite and board ... its been windy the whole past month ...

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why is gold worth anything? Because we all agree that it is." True to some extent, but it does have more intrinsic value than paper currency. 1) It's rare enough that small amounts can be used to trade, but common enough that lots of people can have some. 2) It is pretty (subjective, but agreed-upon across many cultures). 3) It is chemically stable - doesn't rust or tarnish - so if you have 5oz today, you'll still h…

You described the requirements for a medium of exchange, and they make sense. But I don't think that that means "value" necessarily. Value is bread when I am hungry. Or gold when I need to make microchip contacts - but that usage is nowhere near justifying the price that gold actually trades at. This is just a nitpick with the use of term "intrinsic value" - gold's characteristics make it a good form of money, but it…

I don't see how it could really work otherwise. There is no such thing as a good that everyone would value equally. Intrinsic value varies depending on the needs of the traders.

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self-dealing by the banks since 2008 has been almost wholly underwritten by the Fed and the Treasury. Beyond TARP there are myriad guarantees, lending programs, and regulatory exemptions, all designed to provide the banks with greater profit and allowing them to offload risk, usually to the Fed or the taxpayer. Indeed, if you look closely, much of the "profit" in the banking system today is coming from banks borr…

Almost. > [programs are] designed to provide the banks with greater profit and allowing them to offload risk Yes, the Fed is essentially paying the banks to loan money. It's not because the Fed is corrupt, though. It's because that's how bad the economy is. Normally, banks will happily lend money. But when the risk of default is greater, as it is in a recession, banks are stingy with loans: they only loan to those wi…

Why doesn't the Fed just lend this money to ordinary people and businesses directly at 0% interest?

If we are going to have such a system whereby the Fed must print money, which means that the money in the system looses value, then why must the ordinary people or businesses be charged twice by first the lowering in value of the money and second the paying of a higher interest rate, often much higher, to the end bank which lends it?

This system currently concentrates wealth and thus power to the banks. Why, when we probably do not even need them at all and can simply have a massive national bank.

Re: Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

#190
post #142

Works out that around 31,191 people rule america . That works out at about 33 people per member of congress. A manageable number I suppose, should they all decide to lobby. I do find it highly unlikely that they'll ever reach a consensus at those sort of numbers though. That said, around 1,245 of the top 0.01% should statistically be sociopaths, which is a concern.

That said, around 1,245 of the top 0.01% should statistically be sociopaths, which is a concern. Assuming an even distribution… which is unlikely.

the distribution is skewed towards the top 0.1%. According to "This American Life", the percentage of psychopaths* is higher amongst the wealthy and successful than the rest of society.

Not sure what the definition of wealthy and successful is though.

*I wrote sociopaths by accident, although there's some debate as to wether there's a difference between the two.

Also, what's with the down votes? What did I say..?

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