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Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#271

Post by stingrae »

hker wrote: post #166
stingrae wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HK doesn't really have value to China other than making the case to its population that it never stands down or loses. Economically HK isn't that big of a deal compared to the rest of China at this point.

If it were true, China would not have delayed its Anti-Sanctions Law in Hong Kong [1]. Hong Kong is huge in supporting the Finance of China. > But the Hong Kong government can only welcome the stock listing opportunity to reinforce Hong Kong as the world’s premier IPO destination, especially at a time when the introduction of the national security law has raised concerns about maintaining the city as a global financi…

At a very simple level you can compare the GDP of PRC=$14.72T vs the GDP of HK=$349.5B from 2020.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#272

Post by snek_case »

rmason wrote: post #127

Leaders in the former Soviet Union learned the easiest way to erase an historical event was to remove all public record of it. For those who do not remember they would arrest a member of say the Politburo and then all pictures of him with other leaders would be airbrushed out, sometimes even in library books. It was as if he was no longer ever born.

Soon with machine learning erasing people out of pictures and videos will be easier than ever.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#273

Post by nradov »

tw04 wrote: post #162
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has been losing all war games where it defends Tawain against China. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/us-war-games-over-china-threat... It is not okay to assume USA supremacy against adversaries anymore. Why Americans still do business with China is astounding to me.

> the latest war game was based on a Chinese biological-weapon attack that swept through US bases and warships in the Indo-Pacific region more than a decade in the future If China starts a war by releasing a biological weapon, Taiwan will be the least of their concerns. I don't see any scenario in which every Western and neutral nation on Earth doesn't turn against them. Maybe Russia helps, but I doubt it.

If such a weapon were to be used it would probably be done covertly with plausible deniability. Maybe a false flag operation.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#274

Post by dirtyid »

kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #52
88840-8855 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it is a joke, but they do not deny the event. They just put it into a different context. It goes something like: 2000 lives for 20 years of stability. Well, actually 30 years now.

Interesting. Never heard this before. Can you provide sources to back this up?

Chinese Defence Minister Wei Fenghe acknowledged and defended the Tiananmen crackdown in 2019. That's pretty much going to be party / national consensus going forward.

>stopping the "turbulence" was the "correct" policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48489002

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#275

Post by [deleted] »

refenestrator wrote: post #195
dustintrex wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's official doctrine is also that Taiwan is a part of China, and the status of Taiwan is purely an internal affair.

That's true, but if it ends there, then it's not a vital matter of self-defense for us. Honestly, not even that important in terms of balance of power provided we get that TSMC plant up in Arizona first. What it IS, is a grievous insult to our insistence on being the last word in international affairs.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#276

Post by refenestrator »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #109
chasd00 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, it's well known in tech that you're putting your job/livelihood at risk by speaking contrary to the political groupthink. Many people who didn't vote for Clinton or Biden are effectively in career hiding. Threatening someone's job over their beliefs/opinions is very effective censorship.

The right of free speech protects against government retribution. It does not protect private individual / corporation retaliation. This is why you have secret ballot - so no one can retaliate against you for someone you’ve voted for.

Yes, that's why we have the secret ballot and should keep it, but let's try to trend away from why it's necessary?

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#277

Post by nradov »

yann2 wrote: post #253
jollybean wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) "Last fall, the latest war game was based on a Chinese biological-weapon attack that swept through US bases and warships in the Indo-Pacific region" These are superfluous conditions (i.e. predicting bioweapons), and of course, and you're not going to hear about the 'real' results. And of course it ignores the after effects. 2) Defenders have considerable advantage in that situation, especially with a water gap. Th…

Piece by piece sounds good. But after Xi and the rest of the old men who run the country kick the can, I find it hard to believe next gen Chinese leaders will care about Taiwan as much. Whats the upside to them for all this drama?

The drama serves as a useful tool to unify the domestic populace against an external enemy and distract them from CCP corruption.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#278

Post by TimTheTinker »

cma wrote: post #241
hker wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the early 1930s, the USSR survived by shipping so much grain out of Ukraine that by 1933, 25% of the Ukrainian populace had died. Dictatorships and authoritarian regimes always abuse people one way or another to survive. During the Great Leap Forward around 1958-1962, an estimated 15 to 55 millions died in China due to famine, while China was still a net exporter of grain (to Cuba and Africa). Another data point…

Ireland was a net exporter of food during the potato famine, from appeals to laissez-faire capitalism.

That was due to abusive behavior on England's part.

Every country and every political leader is capable of committing atrocities. But overall, rule-of-law democracy is much better at mitigating that than other forms of government.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#279

Post by MangoCoffee »

kunagi7 wrote: post #9

The Chinese Government is speeding up their efforts to swallow Hong Kong and Macau into the Mainland. Closing the media outlets, museums, websites that speak against them. And a few key people get abducted here and there to scare more people and force them to accept the Beijing Regime. But... The people from Hong Kong still demonstrates and tries to fight for their lost rights.

its sad. when Sun Yat-sen the father of modern China take on the Qing dynasty. Hong Kong was the base. It wasn't part of China and a lot of Chinese who is educated under the British rule understand what Sun try to achieve. a modern and free country. Hong Kong have been a base for a lot of progressive Chinese.

Now that Hong Kong is fully back into China and the 50 years of no changes (for Hong Kong) promised by Deng Xiaoping is gone with Xi, basically a emperor for life. There is no hope for China to turn into a democratic country.

Taiwan is the last place for the progressive Chinese. After Chiang's family, Taiwan have progressed to be the most democratic and open minded country. It elected a first female president in Taiwan, allowed gay marriage...etc. While American left Taiwan to have a business relationship with China (CCP) for more than 40 years.

I fear Taiwan will soon be conquered by China, not by force but suppression and economic ties. After Taiwan is gone, there is no more place for any open minded and progressive Chinese.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#280

Post by dirtyid »

ranger207 wrote: post #212
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has been losing all war games where it defends Tawain against China. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/us-war-games-over-china-threat... It is not okay to assume USA supremacy against adversaries anymore. Why Americans still do business with China is astounding to me.

Wargames are designed to be lost. It's not as useful to say "welp we stomped all over them" as it is to push the forces being tested further and further until they break, then fixing or compensating where it broke and pushing even further. Wargames aren't constrained by reality, and the game's opposing force may be more powerful than in reality. Just hearing that the US lost a wargame doesn't mean anything without kn…

Sure, but you can also examine recent US defense proposals / thinktank wonks gaming out indo pacific strategy, i.e. AGILE deployment in Japan, hosting IRBMs in region. The overwhelming pattern and prevailing consensus for those that follow the space is that despite proposals being aspirational / borderline geopolitical fantasy, US blobs aren't even pretending to pursue strategies that explicitly defend TW anymore. Force balance has changed so much with PRC military modernization that US simply cannot defend TW against PRC off her shores. So much so that it's barely worth speculating anymore. Focus is on containing PRC which =/= defending TW. Entirely different propositions that normies still try to conflate with TW defense.
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