Andrew Yang to launch a third party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#91

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

cabalamat wrote: post #28

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #4

Seems like you'd have better luck trying to capture the GOP than start another party. There is a large population of Republican voters that is not really "conservative", but just anti-Democrat. Someone who captured this base while remaining appealing to some moderates/independents would do quite well.

> Seems like you'd have better luck trying to capture the GOP than start another party. Or if someone like Yang but more socially conservative tried to capture the GOP. Then in 2024 when neither of them win their ticket, but both do fairly well, getting lots of publicity, they join forces to run as a 3rd party. Obviously the establishment would try hard to squash them -- but tens of millions hate the establishment! >…

> There is a large population of Republican voters that is not really "conservative", but just anti-Democrat.

> And a lot of Democrat voters who don't like the Dems, just dislike the Reps more.

Yeah, we should unite forces and vote for someone who's sole campaign promise is to dismantle the two-party system.

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#92

Post by warning26 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #81

dsr_ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the Republican Party needs is for DJT to die of natural causes, so that candidates can quibble over who is the true inheritor of his mantle. Eight years after that the name of Trump will be invoked as a meaningless benediction the way that Reagan is used now.

>All the Republican Party needs is for DJT to die of natural causes, so that candidates can quibble over who is the true inheritor of his mantle I think Trump stopped being a viable figurehead for his own movement once the stop-the-steal movement and insurrection failed to prevent Biden's election, and date after date after date for Trump's triumphant return passed without incident. Republicans are going to have to m…

Unlikely; the republicans worship Trump in a way wholly distinct from past presidents (except possibly Reagan) I'm not even certain his death would put a stop to the cult of personality that has arose around him.

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#93

Post by endisneigh » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:00 AM UTC

Here's my hot take: as long as voting is not mandatory (with the ability to go to a poll and officially "abstain") all democracies will eventually spoil. The incentive to manipulate with voter suppression is just too high. Look no further than the United States if you're from there.

A third party simply accelerates this by fracturing the already abysmal electorate. However mandatory voting isn't sufficient. The abolition of FPTP (winner takes all) is also necessary. Inequality (and not necessarily just income) is only accelerating the flaws in anything other than pure-democracy.

TLDR: true democracy will never exist without something like mandatory score/range/star/etc voting. yeah I know the USA isn't a pure democracy. perhaps that's the issue.

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#94

Post by Barrin92 » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #77

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Liberals aren't going to support the Milton Friedman-esque UBI ideas. Isn't that a liberal idea??

Originally, no. Because originally UBI was designed to be used not as another social program, but in lieu of existing programs. When Friedman invented it, the idea was to get rid of things like public schools or whatever other public welfare program, fire all the public workers involved and instead give money to people so they would choose those services in the open market.

As far as I know that is still the case with Yang's UBI, which is why I brought it up in my original post.

"The most important part of Mr. Yang’s 2020 guaranteed income plan was not the size of the checks but how he intended to pay for them. He promised to fund the program by implementing some new tax policies and “consolidating some welfare programs.” Anyone who wanted in would first have to make a choice: continue to get the bulk of the direct government benefits they currently received, or forfeit them and instead get $1,000 a month. Other than Social Security retirement, disability benefits (and potentially some other credits), no one could get both a Freedom Dividend and government assistance."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/opinion/andrew-yang-ubi-n...

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#95

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #30

UncleOxidant wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose the question ultimately will be whether his party pull more votes from Democrats or Republicans I think it's pretty clear that he'd pull more Dems than Reps. That would be a very bad thing in 2024, so you'll probably see a lot of encouragement from Republicans and an lot of discouragement from Democrats.

The real ultimate question is whether post-Trumpism will unite the Republican Party or result in a schism among Conservatives by 2024.

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#96

Post by dane-pgp » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:06 AM UTC

spiderice wrote: post #83

DoubleDerper wrote: post #75

Ranked-choice voting could be make the most meaningfully positive impact on US democracy in decades. Regardless of your politics. More messaging, coverage, and support for ranked-choice voting is necessary, and we should all hope to see more of it in coming months/years.

The fact that every single person in power got elected without ranked choice voting makes me think there is no chance of that ever getting passed. No politician wants to hurt their own job security.

> every single person in power got elected without ranked choice voting

Jared Golden would beg to differ:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Re...

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#97

Post by robotresearcher » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:07 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #71

robotresearcher wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was quashed in the debates in lieu of ratings What does this mean? I know what the words mean, but can't catch your meaning.

I think poster thinks Andrew was not called upon often because other candidates had better draw (for their ratings). Back in the debates it was obvious the party had some favorites and some less than favorite candidates. Andrew was among the latter.

OK that makes sense as the intent. 'In lieu' means 'instead', not 'because', so I think it was incorrect usage that confused me.

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#98

Post by UncleOxidant » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

warning26 wrote: post #92

krapp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All the Republican Party needs is for DJT to die of natural causes, so that candidates can quibble over who is the true inheritor of his mantle I think Trump stopped being a viable figurehead for his own movement once the stop-the-steal movement and insurrection failed to prevent Biden's election, and date after date after date for Trump's triumphant return passed without incident. Republicans are going to have to m…

Unlikely; the republicans worship Trump in a way wholly distinct from past presidents (except possibly Reagan) I'm not even certain his death would put a stop to the cult of personality that has arose around him.

Pretty sure they'd nominate Jr if anything happened to Sr.

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#99

Post by sterlind » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

Cola wrote: post #39

oxymoran wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wouldn’t be able to capture the GOP endorsing UBI and universal healthcare.

I think UBI and healthcare would be the least of his issues. Trump showed that social conservatism/fiscal liberalism could be a winning formula for GOP voters. I wouldn’t be surprised if some young, socially conservative candidate in 2024/2028 who is willing to cancel debt/fund stimulus/healthcare wins by a landslide.

I'm afraid you're right about the GOP and it scares me. If Trump had been a better technocrat, I think it would have been very difficult to unseat him in 2020 and he could have brought the US in a very conservative, adversarial direction by effectively implementing his policies.

Re: Andrew Yang to launch a third party

#100

Post by dane-pgp » Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

rrradical wrote: post #88

davidw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these systems are perfect. I lived in Italy for a number of years and... boy oh boy does proportional representation have its own series of problems. RCV seems like an attainable reform though, and better than the current system.

Yep, and to add, we have proof there is no perfect system: http://tech.mit.edu/V123/N8/8voting.8n.html (Not to suggest we shouldn't move on from the very flawed FPTP!)

Arrow’s Impossibility Theorem often gets brought up in such discussions, but less commonly mentioned is the fact that it only applies to ranked voting systems and not score-based / cardinal voting systems. It also says that a voting system can't produce a total ranking of all options (which is a stronger requirement than just picking a single winner), and it assumes "independence of irrelevant alternatives"[0] which seems rational but doesn't reflect how humans actually behave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_irrelevant_alt...