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Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#221

Post by [deleted] »

nl wrote: post #175
tomrod wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. It would seem a treaty acknowledging Taiwan as an independent sovereign would be an ideal outcome, but it's weird to see nations express wounded pride, imo

> The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. What on earth is this supposed to mean? I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but trying to claim it is illegitimate seems a pretty big stretch.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#222

Post by Aeolun »

nl wrote: post #175
tomrod wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. It would seem a treaty acknowledging Taiwan as an independent sovereign would be an ideal outcome, but it's weird to see nations express wounded pride, imo

> The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. What on earth is this supposed to mean? I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but trying to claim it is illegitimate seems a pretty big stretch.

> I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but trying to claim it is illegitimate seems a pretty big stretch.

That’s exactly what the Chinese government is doing though. Isn’t that a bit of a stretch too?

China claims Taiwan just as Taiwan (more or less seriously, but I doubt with any will to ever try and recover it) claims China.

Or more like they both claim to be the legitimate government of greater China.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#223

Post by [deleted] »

tw04 wrote: post #162
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has been losing all war games where it defends Tawain against China. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/us-war-games-over-china-threat... It is not okay to assume USA supremacy against adversaries anymore. Why Americans still do business with China is astounding to me.

> the latest war game was based on a Chinese biological-weapon attack that swept through US bases and warships in the Indo-Pacific region more than a decade in the future If China starts a war by releasing a biological weapon, Taiwan will be the least of their concerns. I don't see any scenario in which every Western and neutral nation on Earth doesn't turn against them. Maybe Russia helps, but I doubt it.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#224

Post by nullc »

nl wrote: post #175
tomrod wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. It would seem a treaty acknowledging Taiwan as an independent sovereign would be an ideal outcome, but it's weird to see nations express wounded pride, imo

> The issue is, the CCP sees Taiwan as theirs when in reality China belongs to Taiwan. What on earth is this supposed to mean? I'm no fan of the Chinese government, but trying to claim it is illegitimate seems a pretty big stretch.

> What on earth is this supposed to mean?

The Republic of China was the government of China from 1912 until 1949 when it was overthrown by the CCP and retreated to Taiwan. Until at least 1971 the UN recognized it as the legitimate government of all of China.

The poster's comment is outdated, but that's the historical background -- and why it's less crazy than you might have assumed without knowing the history.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#225

Post by president »

warning26 wrote: post #46
president wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very sad and parallels what seems to be happening in the US and other western democracies as well. There is a trend of certain dominant power in all of these countries that is quashing all opposing voices. I predict that some major global events are going to happen within the next few years. EDIT: Case in point - the quashing of opposing voices occurs on this board on this very comment. You cannot even bring up this…

Or, consider this alternative hypothesis -- people are downvoting you for whining about being downvoted.

Happened well before my edit. People associate narratives with tribal politics and vote accordingly. For those like me who think and speak independently, it is a massive disappointment to get caught in the crossfire.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#226

Post by justicezyx »

kunagi7 wrote: post #9

The Chinese Government is speeding up their efforts to swallow Hong Kong and Macau into the Mainland. Closing the media outlets, museums, websites that speak against them. And a few key people get abducted here and there to scare more people and force them to accept the Beijing Regime. But... The people from Hong Kong still demonstrates and tries to fight for their lost rights.

I am disappointed by the naivete displayed by Hong Kong and their Western supporters (plus some mainlanders who privately admitted so). They are just replaying the tiananmen square riot, and had been setup from the beginning to be walking into the trap that happened before, and many times over the course of human history...

They had a very good chance of inducing meaningful change into Chinese people's mindset, and plant the seed for much bigger scale of change in China. Imagine a free and solidified China, with Taiwan finally joining the whole under a free nation. That would be the real junvanation of the nation.

They squandered, they lack the discipline, showing stutling naive approach to serious politics, they are put down like weak fire in the winter days...

What a pity...

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#227

Post by systemvoltage »

mthoms wrote: post #182
asdff wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's arsenal is almost a full order of magnitude smaller than just what the US has currently deployed and ready for launch (not counting the rest of the stockpile which is like 4x the size). We have enough weaponry to completely overwhelm their defenses. China does not.

So China will only nuke 60% of the US population instead of the 90% casualties we will inflict on them? Huzzah! That will show 'em!

There is also the US National Missile Defense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_national_missile...

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#228

Post by billiam »

Heartbreaking. I can't even talk about Tiananmen with Chinese -born friends under 40 in the US or Europe. TikTok and WeChat has achieved their goals of driving historical memory from their brains. And if I even mention Taiwan within seconds I am hearing the term "renegade province." It seems for now possible to create a true virtual totalitarian state in the 21st century. It's chains are forged out of "Xi thought" apps and distracting two minute videos.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#229

Post by yyyk »

stickfigure wrote: post #170
yuy910616 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really reminds me of the Taiwan election commercial that compares Taiwan and Hong Kong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykcVIQMrc4A

Honest question: Why not just give Taiwan nukes? MAD seems to be a very effective peace strategy. China already has nukes. Seems the essential missing ingredient is the 'M'.

Even putting the proliferation issue aside, a Taiwan nuke program just won't deter China, will merely justify an invasion. This may have worked - in the sense of deterring PRC - 30 or more likely 40 years ago, when their army was much weaker. It's far too late to think about that now.

Re: Hong Kong: Police Raid Tiananmen Square Museum

#230

Post by president »

kemiller wrote: post #94
president wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very sad and parallels what seems to be happening in the US and other western democracies as well. There is a trend of certain dominant power in all of these countries that is quashing all opposing voices. I predict that some major global events are going to happen within the next few years. EDIT: Case in point - the quashing of opposing voices occurs on this board on this very comment. You cannot even bring up this…

Nowhere in the constitution are you protected from consequences when you say something stupid, and right-leaning folks have been saying this particular stupid thing a bit too often. Have the offices of Fox News or Breitbart or the Creation Science Museum been raided by police? No? Then this is not even close to parallel.

There are plenty of examples but you won't hear about those things if all your information comes from the corporate press.

Someone else in the comments posted a twitter app with many examples but when someone finally posts the receipts, nobody follows up. What does that tell me? People are not interested in the truth but defending their tribe.

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