The Problems with Deliberate Practice (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Problems with Deliberate Practice (2020)

#71

Post by Pamar » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

elbows wrote: post #38

Pamar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide some suggestions on improving (or just pointing out what makes these pedagogical black holes)? I am a MA practitioner myself (Aikido, 32 years and counting) and while I am always interested in the pedagogical aspect even if I rarely held a lesson myself. (And yes, I know that BJJ is very different from Aikido, but at the end of the day, I see lots of other arts - including Karate, Judo... Aikido etc.…

A lot of martial arts training is focused on practicing techniques in isolation and developing "perfect" form (punches/kicks in the air, doing the same throw repeatedly against a cooperative partner). The problem is that any technique you want to apply against an opponent in a competition (or self-defense situation) also has a significant tactical/decision-making component, which is not really trained by that approac…

Thank you for the pointers. I have already put the Preto's book in my Amazon basket.

Yes, I am aware that Aikido is radically different from most other martial arts (some dojos do practice a sort of "freeflow randori" but it's usually just having many ukes throwing attacks at you, and there is not much resistance to your techniques... and in any case it never really dominate the lesson in terms of time).

Regarding your answer: personally I think this is a sort of paradox which cannot really be solved when teaching "how to fight": if I go to a "translator school" I will dedicate lots of time in actually translate texts. There will always be a practically infinite quantity of German texts to pick up, and I am expected to always tackle each with full energy and apply any trick I know. At the same time, there will never be a German text that will sue me from its hospital bed, or send the police to arrest my teachers and close down the school on Manslaughter charges.

Even if we look at fighting arts/sports that were designed to freely apply full force (e.g. Judo) what you learn there is targeted to face an opponent which is wearing Judo Federation approved garb, is alone and is in your same weight class and probably level of expertise. And there is at least a referee around, fight happens on a sort of "consecrated ground" etc. etc.

Re: The Problems with Deliberate Practice (2020)

#72

Post by loudtieblahblah » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #9

One word: play. I didn’t go to Unix school or do practice reps of building networks. I stayed up late nights building weird and sometimes nefarious projects. Similarly, I have mediocre results when my schedule only allows BJJ classes but markedly better results when I can just go “play” Jiu jitsu with others. Just go get reps doing something you love, in an experimental and playful manner.

>I didn’t go to Unix school or do practice reps of building networks. I stayed up late nights building weird and sometimes nefarious projects.

This is how i learned Linux/Unix, AWS, bash scripting and all sorts of things.

And then .. one day I found myself ... older. Work would kick my ass and I had spent my 20s eating like shit because i spent too much time sitting at a computer.

So time once used for computer play became gym time, jogging time, swimming, hiking, yoga, lifting time.

Then a little older, and starting to buckle down the finances because we got married and now wanted a house so we stopped going out so much and started staying in more and watching movies, playing board games. The money i once used to build new computer or have spare machines or pay for EC2 instances and ELBs and S3 buckets, that all dried up.

Then i have a house to take care of - which takes time.

Then i have a kid to take care of.

All of a sudden I'm 40, with a house, a kid, a 8-10 hour a day job, i get up at 6am and go jogging.

The stress of life has boiled into an anxiety problem - so i can't over caffeinate anymore (which used to keep my ADHD at bay, to an extent). I have to exercise daily to keep in shape and htat anxiety at bay. I'm getting older and stressed out and maybe i need to eat healthier and spend more time in the kitchen making sure I'm getting whole, nutritional, well balanced meals and not a lot of quick, processed shit. This makes my child's health better too.

And now i have no time for "play". And when i have time for play - one more computer screen is the last thing in the world i want to look at.

and now i understand how STEM basically exploits young men who are willing to spend 8 hours a day working, plus a couple hours of overtime daily or weekly, ontop of all the free training they're constantly giving themselves via "play"..then looking at people 20-30 years their senior and expecting them to keep up.

What you love - also just changes. Work is the best way to ruin any passion. The toxic co-workers, the preachy HR departments, the exciting projects ruined by bureaucracy, the small companies that expect too much of you, the large companies that lock you into narrowly defined roles and treat you like a number, the endless meetings (zoom or IRL), the jam packed calendars to the point you don't know how you're going to have the time to ramp your brain up to take on something complex.

You start to realize.. hey, i like gardening. I like making furniture. I l ike writing poetry. I like playing video games with my kid or teaching him to swim or ride a bike. I like taking care of my yard. I like just... putting a pair of headphones on and listening to a record, carving time out to read on a regular basis, maybe catch and old movie with the wife after t he kid's asleep. I like some fine dining, or a couple glasses of red wine 1-2x a month.

All the things that bring you the joy that computer-play once did, do absolute fuck all to further your career.

Then what? what do you do then?

Re: The Problems with Deliberate Practice (2020)

#73

Post by sn9 » Sat, Sep 11, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

borroka wrote: post #68

sn9 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been a few years since I read it, but Josh Waitzkin's Art of Learning discusses how he went from complete novice to winning the world championship in Tai Chi Push Hands within two years. It's a pretty good memoir for anyone interested in chess, martial arts, or just learning in general.

It is an interesting book and I know people who know him since they trained in the same gym, but along with the solid substance (meat) that he proposes, my impression is that he throws a lot of smoke at the problem (see for example the few interviews he gave to Tim Ferris). He is a smart guy and the book is one I recommend, but he overcomplicates what should be pretty straightforward. I met many high-level, sometimes…

Yeah I get what you mean, but it's also pretty rare for people to achieve what he did in martial arts in such a small time frame.

And the specifics he outlines about how he rapidly improved to the point where he could compete at an international level will surely benefit anyone looking to improve at their art.