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The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

jamesomalley.substack.com

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Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#171

Post by M2Ys4U »

msla wrote: post #83
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The BBC, as with any other government-controlled revenue source Point of fact, the BBC was not intended to be "government-controlled", and it is not a "revenue source" for the UK government. https://www.quora.com/Is-the-BBC-the-state-owned-and-state-c... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC#

The BBC is government-controlled in that its money is collected by the government, which can punish people for not paying, and organizations know where their funds are coming from and attempt to prevent those funds from being stopped.

>The BBC is government-controlled in that its money is collected by the government

No, the licence fee is collected by the BBC, by law.

Section 365(2) of the Communications Act 2003:

>Sums which a person is liable to pay by virtue of regulations under subsection (1) must be paid to the BBC and are to be recoverable by them accordingly.

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#172

Post by ChrisKnott »

deadbunny wrote: post #76
EricE wrote: post #48

"The BBC’s legitimacy is predicated on it being a universal service." And this is the issue. Once they got super political they ceased being universal :p

The BBC are super political?

The best thing about these comments is trying to guess whether they are about to complain the BBC is too left wing or too right wing.

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#173

Post by abdallabbc »

n8cpdx wrote: post #124
iso1210 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rights issues, and of course the fact that BBC content is -- a fair whack of BBC funding comes from Worldwide (or whatever it's called this week), which sells BBC material internationally. Watch a BBC production on CBS or PBS or BBS or whatever and some money goes back to the BBC. I believe Britbox is an option too. Same with television formats. Dancing with the Stars I believe is a popular US program based on a BBC…

I still don't understand why I (an American) can't pay the BBC money for access to iPlayer. BBC has been saying hell no to my money for over a decade now. It doesn't make sense. Free money! You could lower your TV tax! I think it must be BBC official policy that they want the whole world buying VPN and pirating the content. It doesn't make sense. Throwing money away and then asking why they aren't competitive with th…

You may want to have a look at BritBox, which combines content produced by BBC and other UK outlets (ITV..etc).

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#174

Post by 908B64B197 »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #161
908B64B197 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mainly (70%) from a TV licence Whose existence is voted and that is managed by... the Government?

It's not managed by the government, it's a Royal Charter. In the UK, parliament is sovereign and can ultimately do anything so they could vote to change this arrangement. This is the case with anything. Parliament could vote to execute left handers. The fact remains, what you said is false; 1. The BBC are not on the government's payroll 2. They regularly hold the government to account Your criticism is nonsense Liber…

> In the UK, parliament is sovereign and can ultimately do anything so they could vote to change this arrangement.

So tomorrow morning they could threaten the BBC with a massive funding cut unless they don't publish things they don't like... and there's nothing stopping them from doing so.

Interesting.

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#175

Post by native_samples »

eynsham wrote: post #153
native_samples wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between aspiration and execution. Every TV channel will claim they aspire to inform, educate and be diverse. No TV channel in history has said their goal is to misinform, dumb down and present homogenous uniformity day after day. The BBC is clearly failing at its goals. Most of the UK population no longer trusts its news output; that's huge and a new phenomenon, although of course it's been a lon…

> The BBC is clearly failing at its goals. Well, the Proms this year were bound to be disappointing, but I’m sure matters will improve next year. And the cricket commentary is still perfectly sound. > Most of the UK population no longer trusts its news output This is simply untrue: >60% of the population trust the BBC’s news output.¹ > The government is, at least in theory, accountable to the people. It is less accou…

I'm British. As the sibling comment has pointed out, my understanding of UK elections is fine.

You appear to be arguing that the only way to hold the BBC accountable is to convince Parliament to entirely abolish it, which is rather making my point for me. That is the most limited form of accountability imaginable.

Opinion polls on trust in the BBC vary, perhaps by time, but reputable and recent polls show that most people do not trust it any more:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/1...

"YouGov figures show British trust in the press to tell the truth has fallen, with less than half believing BBC news journalists are honest and impartial."

This document shows trust in BBC News by year - as you can see it has constantly fallen since 2003, the earliest year they started polling:

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vf1qhxf7kh/YG%20trackers%20-%20T...

This fall in trust is deserved. If you genuinely believe the "supply chain" for two pieces of bread with some stuff in between could have been disrupted by Brexit then you're exactly the sort of person the BBC is pandering to, which is probably why you don't see the problems. There is nothing special about the BBC beyond its archaic funding model. As discussed elsewhere in this thread, it is being regularly beaten by Netflix, Amazon and other larger scale content producers.

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#176

Post by chrisseaton »

908B64B197 wrote: post #174
ChrisKnott wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not managed by the government, it's a Royal Charter. In the UK, parliament is sovereign and can ultimately do anything so they could vote to change this arrangement. This is the case with anything. Parliament could vote to execute left handers. The fact remains, what you said is false; 1. The BBC are not on the government's payroll 2. They regularly hold the government to account Your criticism is nonsense Liber…

> In the UK, parliament is sovereign and can ultimately do anything so they could vote to change this arrangement. So tomorrow morning they could threaten the BBC with a massive funding cut unless they don't publish things they don't like... and there's nothing stopping them from doing so. Interesting.

This argument is meaningless, because the government can already threaten any institution with changing the law to disadvantage them.

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#177

Post by [deleted] »

pharmakom wrote: post #159
jodrellblank wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like saying "why not get rid of government funded schools and have children watch Marvel and Disney instead?". The BBC's mission was to "inform, educate and entertain", Disney's and Marvels is more like "entertain, addict and profit". From Wikipedia about the origins of the BBC: > " The British Broadcasting Corporation came into existence on 1 January 1927, and Reith – newly knighted – was appointed its fi…

But equally has the BBC made a Simpsons? The Wire? Sopranos?

[deleted]

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#178

Post by deadbunny »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #172
deadbunny wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC are super political?

The best thing about these comments is trying to guess whether they are about to complain the BBC is too left wing or too right wing.

Indeed, that's has always been my argument for the BBC. Both sides are constantly claiming that the BBC is biased the other way so they are probably falling in the middle for the most part.

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#179

Post by eynsham »

native_samples wrote: post #175
eynsham wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The BBC is clearly failing at its goals. Well, the Proms this year were bound to be disappointing, but I’m sure matters will improve next year. And the cricket commentary is still perfectly sound. > Most of the UK population no longer trusts its news output This is simply untrue: >60% of the population trust the BBC’s news output.¹ > The government is, at least in theory, accountable to the people. It is less accou…

I'm British. As the sibling comment has pointed out, my understanding of UK elections is fine. You appear to be arguing that the only way to hold the BBC accountable is to convince Parliament to entirely abolish it, which is rather making my point for me. That is the most limited form of accountability imaginable. Opinion polls on trust in the BBC vary, perhaps by time, but reputable and recent polls show that most p…

> As the sibling comment has pointed out, my understanding of UK elections is fine.

‘Every’ is not the same as ‘on average’.

> You appear to be arguing that the only way to hold the BBC accountable is to convince Parliament to entirely abolish it, which is rather making my point for me. That is the most limited form of accountability imaginable.

‘There are mechanisms other than accountability’ does in fact appear above. And no, this is simply untrue: the BBC can also be reformed by an act of parliament, or, say, turned into a Quango to farm garlic.

> https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/1...

> "YouGov figures show British trust in the press to tell the truth has fallen, with less than half believing BBC news journalists are honest and impartial."

First of all the BBC suddenly looks rather special according to YouGov (see e.g. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/media/articles-reports/2020/04/2...) for a longer perspective. Second, ‘not much’ is a pretty vague category and not trusting journos much to tell the truth could quite easily encompass still thinking that the Beeb is still all right given the alternatives. This is also confirmed by e.g. this: https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/bbc-most-trusted-news....

> If you genuinely believe the "supply chain" for two pieces of bread with some stuff in between could have been disrupted by Brexit then you're exactly the sort of person the BBC is pandering to, which is probably why you don't see the problems.

I can’t tell whether you’re joking. The article read:

> Sandwiches would be one of the first victims of a breakdown in the food supply chain in the event of a disorderly no-deal Brexit, according to a senior grocery executive.

This is, simply, er, true. If goods were delayed for a week at the border, we would have a lot of rotten tomatoes and not very much to put in our sandwiches. This seems to be some sort of weird reaction to catastrophising about Brexit where somehow Brexit has no effect on supply chains whatsoever. A ‘disorderly no-deal Brexit’ would have been precisely that.

> There is nothing special about the BBC beyond its archaic funding model. As discussed elsewhere in this thread, it is being regularly beaten by Netflix, Amazon and other larger scale content producers.

Only somebody who does not consume the output of, say, All India Radio, CCTV, Channel News Asia &al. could say that the BBC is ‘not special’. I find it difficult not to be thankful for the Proms, and for cricket broadcasts without incessant American-style—to be thankful for civilisation, really.

Re: The bargain at the heart of the BBC is fraying

#180

Post by iso1210 »

908B64B197 wrote: post #174
ChrisKnott wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not managed by the government, it's a Royal Charter. In the UK, parliament is sovereign and can ultimately do anything so they could vote to change this arrangement. This is the case with anything. Parliament could vote to execute left handers. The fact remains, what you said is false; 1. The BBC are not on the government's payroll 2. They regularly hold the government to account Your criticism is nonsense Liber…

> In the UK, parliament is sovereign and can ultimately do anything so they could vote to change this arrangement. So tomorrow morning they could threaten the BBC with a massive funding cut unless they don't publish things they don't like... and there's nothing stopping them from doing so. Interesting.

Parliament != government. In theory it could pass a law to get rid of the royal charter. Tomorrow morning Congress could threaten ABC with confiscating its license unless they don't publish things they don't like. The German army could storm broadcasters with armed men and for them to broadcast what they say.
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