How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#161

Post by amelius » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:37 AM UTC

api wrote: post #108

OneEyedRobot wrote: post #46

What ticks me off no end is the folks who (often successfully) fight against physician assisted suicide. Dementia is the interesting test case, but I think should still be allowed. With all the talk about 'controlling our bodies' in terms of abortion, and I can see both sides of that one, your own life is the one thing you really own. To have that control taken away is the worst kind of insult by the state.

The problem is the possibility that physician assisted suicide will be abused to clear out people who are costly to treat by gently urging them to take the option, or other similar scenarios like a family urging someone to take the option so they can get early inheritance. It's one of those things that I might support in idealistic principle but where I develop serious reservations when I factor in how ugly people ca…

Then perhaps we should ban inheritance. It seemed unfair anyway.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#162

Post by kelnos » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:38 AM UTC

dimitrios1 wrote: post #98

symlinkk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/pdfs/ss6907a1-H.pdf Although the numbers are a bit different here, maybe he’s referencing a newer data set. Still it’s shocking: > non-Hispanic Black women had the highest abortion rate (21.2 abortions per 1,000 women) and ratio (335 abortions per 1,000 live births)

No sorry, it is my numbers that are outdated. I was referencing a 2015 congressional report. Abortion rates have been declining sharply over the past few years, so that's good news at least.

Depends on why. If rates have been declining because people are more educated about birth control and family planning, that's good news indeed. If it's because of new restrictions on access to abortion, that's not fixing the problem at all.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#163

Post by Nursie » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:40 AM UTC

ZWoz wrote: post #154

abeppu wrote: post #145

This subverts the message a bit, but my grandmother was sent to a hospice to die as comfortably as possible. I was out of state during her treatment up until this point, but when she was being moved to hospice care, I was told to expect her passing very soon. In this case, her doctors really seemed to have run out of good options; she just hadn't responded to treatment. But, after she was moved to hospice care, she b…

> And not suffering, not being in pain was maybe what allowed her to begin to heal. I think that is somewhat well known? I don't have good references about humans, but veterinarian James Alfred Wight (wrote books as James Herriot) has written about it, how lost cause lamb "miraculously" recovered after big dose pain killer (sorry, don't remember details, only his thoughs, how getting rest from pain helps).

It’s definitely true for some muscle injuries - the painkillers allow you to relax enough to start loosening up an healing.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#164

Post by type0 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

ZWoz wrote: post #154

abeppu wrote: post #145

This subverts the message a bit, but my grandmother was sent to a hospice to die as comfortably as possible. I was out of state during her treatment up until this point, but when she was being moved to hospice care, I was told to expect her passing very soon. In this case, her doctors really seemed to have run out of good options; she just hadn't responded to treatment. But, after she was moved to hospice care, she b…

> And not suffering, not being in pain was maybe what allowed her to begin to heal. I think that is somewhat well known? I don't have good references about humans, but veterinarian James Alfred Wight (wrote books as James Herriot) has written about it, how lost cause lamb "miraculously" recovered after big dose pain killer (sorry, don't remember details, only his thoughs, how getting rest from pain helps).

> how lost cause lamb "miraculously" recovered after big dose pain killer

this probably have to do with movement (which applies to other animals and humans) if they feel pain they don't move, that slows down the blood circulation and the healing process.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#165

Post by kelnos » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:47 AM UTC

dimitrios1 wrote: post #90

pstuart wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> kill themselves Many would disagree with that characterization.

potato potatoe -- it's ending a life.

Unless you're vegan, you participate in the ending of life as well.

At the stages of development when most abortions are performed, the life that is being ended is much less of a life than that of a cow, or pig, or chicken, or even fish, that ends up being killed for food.

If people truly believe that ending abortion is a moral and ethical issue, then the only consistent stance is to also be vegan and push for laws requiring everyone else be vegan.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#166

Post by olau » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:47 AM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #145

This subverts the message a bit, but my grandmother was sent to a hospice to die as comfortably as possible. I was out of state during her treatment up until this point, but when she was being moved to hospice care, I was told to expect her passing very soon. In this case, her doctors really seemed to have run out of good options; she just hadn't responded to treatment. But, after she was moved to hospice care, she b…

I also think that people underestimate good nursing, both for sick people and children. Hospitals are not necessarily great places to live. May be the care at the hospice actually gave her something to live for.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#167

Post by radu_floricica » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:58 AM UTC

ZWoz wrote: post #154

abeppu wrote: post #145

This subverts the message a bit, but my grandmother was sent to a hospice to die as comfortably as possible. I was out of state during her treatment up until this point, but when she was being moved to hospice care, I was told to expect her passing very soon. In this case, her doctors really seemed to have run out of good options; she just hadn't responded to treatment. But, after she was moved to hospice care, she b…

> And not suffering, not being in pain was maybe what allowed her to begin to heal. I think that is somewhat well known? I don't have good references about humans, but veterinarian James Alfred Wight (wrote books as James Herriot) has written about it, how lost cause lamb "miraculously" recovered after big dose pain killer (sorry, don't remember details, only his thoughs, how getting rest from pain helps).

Pain -> stress -> cortisone -> body shifts to survival mode and shuts down longer term processes?

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#168

Post by fho » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 7:59 AM UTC

type0 wrote: post #164

ZWoz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And not suffering, not being in pain was maybe what allowed her to begin to heal. I think that is somewhat well known? I don't have good references about humans, but veterinarian James Alfred Wight (wrote books as James Herriot) has written about it, how lost cause lamb "miraculously" recovered after big dose pain killer (sorry, don't remember details, only his thoughs, how getting rest from pain helps).

> how lost cause lamb "miraculously" recovered after big dose pain killer this probably have to do with movement (which applies to other animals and humans) if they feel pain they don't move, that slows down the blood circulation and the healing process.

Something, something, desk worker ...

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#169

Post by Nitrolo » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 8:06 AM UTC

draugadrotten wrote: post #148

coliveira wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If society wants more babies, the path is easy: provide financial help for couples and single mothers. The way it currently is, abortion is very attractive.

Financial help is not all it takes to stop abortions. There are welfare states such as scandinavian ones where the financial help for having children and/or being a single mother is very generous. A single mother with 6 children can receive financial aid to the equivalent of a senior software engineer salary without having to work at all. Source: https://www.expressen.se/gt/gt-granskar/shukri-hade-fatt-lik... Even wi…

I'd just like to point out that raising 6 kids is very much hard work, even if you're a bad parent I find it hard to describe it as no work at all.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#170

Post by kelnos » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 8:11 AM UTC

dinkleberg wrote: post #58

pochekailov wrote: post #36

Today's medicine is focused to treat the diseases, refusing to admit that people at 70-80 years old die not from disease, but from the old age. Everybody but a few enthusiasts refuse to treat ageing instead of cancer or heart diseases. People in general refuse to treat ageing as a disease, thinking it is something natural. I would not want a couple more miserable years on earth, I want a few million years of a health…

Is it fair to future generations who are yet to be born to write off the possibility of their ever being born because we're selfish and want to live forever? There is some limit to the number of humans we can support on earth, so if everyone is living millions of years (or more realistically let's say hundreds of years) we would have to drastically cut the world's reproduction rates. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I…

> I feel like that is the classic hubris of mankind to aspire to become gods

Gods were invented by people who refused to admit their ignorance of things they couldn't understand or explain.

Every year the list of unexplainable things gets shorter and shorter. Maybe we'll never be able to explain everything, but I do believe it's within reach to understand the aging process to the point of being able to reverse or even halt it. It may not happen in our lifetimes, and the society that figures it out may not be able to deal with the ramifications properly, but they will learn over time. Just as we've done with scientific and technological advancements in the past. Sometimes you can't figure out how to deal with something until you have to deal with it.