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The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

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Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#21

Post by hirako2000 »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #18
actually_a_dog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you are referring to mRNA vaccines here. These are not in any way "gene therapy." Please quit spouting misinformation. For reference: > Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect[1] or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy mRNA vaccines do not mod…

Moderna and the FDA think it's a gene therapy. "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA." [1] >Please quit spouting misinformation. I like how you start with the word "please" so you can pretend you're being polite. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220...

You are brilliant.

The disinformation has been so effective it created zealots constantly defending the side of pharmaceuticals, government measures, systemic control of movement and ultimately even how to treat our own health. Always using reverse accusations, especially when proven wrong or suddenly disappear, refuse to continue the argumentation, or minimise the gravity of their falsehood.

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#22

Post by flyingcircus3 »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #18
actually_a_dog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you are referring to mRNA vaccines here. These are not in any way "gene therapy." Please quit spouting misinformation. For reference: > Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect[1] or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy mRNA vaccines do not mod…

Moderna and the FDA think it's a gene therapy. "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA." [1] >Please quit spouting misinformation. I like how you start with the word "please" so you can pretend you're being polite. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220...

Let's complete the sentence of your quote and see who's playing word games:

"Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and could act as a source of side effects, mRNA-based medicines are designed to not irreversibly change cell DNA; however, side effects observed in gene therapy could negatively impact the perception of mRNA medicines despite the differences in mechanism."

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#23

Post by kook_throwaway »

hirako2000 wrote: post #21
kook_throwaway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moderna and the FDA think it's a gene therapy. "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA." [1] >Please quit spouting misinformation. I like how you start with the word "please" so you can pretend you're being polite. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220...

You are brilliant. The disinformation has been so effective it created zealots constantly defending the side of pharmaceuticals, government measures, systemic control of movement and ultimately even how to treat our own health. Always using reverse accusations, especially when proven wrong or suddenly disappear, refuse to continue the argumentation, or minimise the gravity of their falsehood.

The gravity of the falsehood is key to understanding.

We have seen an incredible growth of authoritarianism, from the near daily 'Simon says' mandate changes, lockdowns, increased surveillance, destruction of small business, 12 trillion dollars printed, and coerced administration of a novel gene therapy. You have no choice but to be right with all of that on your shoulders, that's a lot to weigh down a conscience if one is wrong.

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#24

Post by elefanten »

Lammy wrote: post #20
elefanten wrote: post #19

Complete tripe. The article doesn't even work up the guts to make the claim that's made in the headline. And even in what it actually says, it goes too far by claiming the government was trying to "purposely" harm the lungs of pot smokers. The only argument supported by the evidence is that the government was trying to kill weed crops as an early drug war tactic, which backfired because it wasn't killing enough of th…

http://www.csdp.org/research/shafernixon.pdf

Interesting historical snippets. Did I miss something in there that mentioned a conspiracy to murder or maim pot smokers?

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#25

Post by kook_throwaway »

flyingcircus3 wrote: post #22
kook_throwaway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moderna and the FDA think it's a gene therapy. "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA." [1] >Please quit spouting misinformation. I like how you start with the word "please" so you can pretend you're being polite. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220...

Let's complete the sentence of your quote and see who's playing word games: "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and could act as a source of side effects, mRNA-based medicines are designed to not irreversibly change cell DNA; however, side effects observed in gene therapy could negatively impact the perception of mRNA medicin…

I never said it altered DNA, that was the straw man the poster who replied to me built.

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#26

Post by carlmr »

dngray wrote: post #11
throwawaylinux wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's what they said back then too. At any rate, the pathetic bootlicking and prostration to authoritarianism, and mob bullying of anybody who would dare to ask any questions of such pure and innocent institutions is pretty sickening.

The difference is we actually know what is in the vaccines and how they are produced. They're also not produced by one single company, we've got pfizer, moderna and a number of others working independently over international borders. Not only that there's not exactly much sense in having many people die of a preventable disease. That costs government both in reduced productivity and healthcare. It also encourages har…

I got the vaccine so I personally don't believe that we're trying to kill and/or subjugate all of humanity right now. But this strikes me as odd:

>The difference is we actually know what is in the vaccines and how they are produced.

If you had designed the vaccine, produced all the inputs of the manufacturing process and the machines yourself, and then produced the vaccines which you then checked with machines to analyze the result and then analyzed it yourself, and then took that vial and injected it yourself with your own syringe and your own disinfectant, then you would "know" what you were injected with.

My point is not to distrust the vaccines, or that any one person can realistically do this.

"Trusting the science" and "trusting the vaccines" is in essence still trusting all other humans in that chain of events that led to the vaccine in your arm to have done their job properly, at least to the best of their abilities.

Some people are now ready to trust the government on this more than others.

I think there was a study once in mould or some other simple organism, I sadly can't find it. They found that even these simple lifeforms have the tendency to have outliers in behavior. When a high number, say 95%, of it goes towards a food source 5% will avoid it.

This survival mechanism might kill the 5% more often than not, but if the opposite happens, the food is bad and kills the 95%, there is a reservoir of living cells that can spread.

On a long enough timeline, as the article shows, trust will be broken. From an evolutionary perspective then it's good to have some outliers. The reasoning they use doesn't matter, survival is what matters.

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#27

Post by actually_a_dog »

kook_throwaway wrote: post #18
actually_a_dog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you are referring to mRNA vaccines here. These are not in any way "gene therapy." Please quit spouting misinformation. For reference: > Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect[1] or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy mRNA vaccines do not mod…

Moderna and the FDA think it's a gene therapy. "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA." [1] >Please quit spouting misinformation. I like how you start with the word "please" so you can pretend you're being polite. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220...

[flagged]

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#28

Post by candiodari »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #15
kook_throwaway wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is working, but being coerced to take a novel gene therapy from organizations with a long history of abuse is a horrific precedent that should offend everyone.

I assume you are referring to mRNA vaccines here. These are not in any way "gene therapy." Please quit spouting misinformation. For reference: > Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect[1] or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_therapy mRNA vaccines do not mod…

First: Injecting RNA into cells that currently have reverse-transcriptase proteins active? I'm afraid it will modify DNA. So in any cell currently infected with a retrovirus, and there will be a lot of those in any human, it will modify DNA.

Of course, no more (in fact significantly less) than the virus will. But mRNA vaccines, when used against a retrovirus, will modify DNA.

Second: it would be considered Gene therapy whether or not it modifies DNA.

Thirdly: all RNA activity will result in expression changes for other Genes. That might not modify the DNA directly, but most researchers now consider that part of the genetic material of the cell. Again, probably a lot less than a virus would.

Fourthly: all "negative" (meaning it cuts out "wrong" DNA rather than adding some) gene therapy treatments only inject RNA as well. It's not quite the same as an RNA-based vaccine.

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#29

Post by throwawaylinux »

dngray wrote: post #11
throwawaylinux wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's what they said back then too. At any rate, the pathetic bootlicking and prostration to authoritarianism, and mob bullying of anybody who would dare to ask any questions of such pure and innocent institutions is pretty sickening.

The difference is we actually know what is in the vaccines and how they are produced. They're also not produced by one single company, we've got pfizer, moderna and a number of others working independently over international borders. Not only that there's not exactly much sense in having many people die of a preventable disease. That costs government both in reduced productivity and healthcare. It also encourages har…

You're right, never ever have a bunch of corporations and governments colluded to be dishonest with people for their own gain. Never happened in anything related to the Middle East, South America, India, the Gulf of Mexico, tobacco, climate change, asbestos, banking bailouts, subprime mortgages, or anything else. Now let's all go bash the first fascist we find daring to question our benevolent corporate-government overlords.

Re: The US Government tried to kill weed smokers with a toxic chemical in the 1980s

#30

Post by stephen_g »

elefanten wrote: post #19

Complete tripe. The article doesn't even work up the guts to make the claim that's made in the headline. And even in what it actually says, it goes too far by claiming the government was trying to "purposely" harm the lungs of pot smokers. The only argument supported by the evidence is that the government was trying to kill weed crops as an early drug war tactic, which backfired because it wasn't killing enough of th…

The point is that the Government very quickly realised it didn't work to kill the plants, quickly realised contaminated crops were coming in to the US and that the poison they'd sprayed on it was harming people, and then continued to do it for decades...
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