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How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

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Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#21

Post by initplus »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #12
camkego wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far, far, far down in the blog post at section III., the author says this: > I (and the doctors in my family whom I’ve asked) am pretty much like the doctors in the article. If I get a terminal disease, I want to wring what I can out of the few months of life I have left and totally avoid any surgery, chemotherapy, amputations, ventilators, and the like. It would be a clean death. It would be okay. > My big fear, tho…

Why would that be the big fear?

Answered in the subsequent paragraph after the end of the quotation...

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#22

Post by renjimen »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #12
camkego wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far, far, far down in the blog post at section III., the author says this: > I (and the doctors in my family whom I’ve asked) am pretty much like the doctors in the article. If I get a terminal disease, I want to wring what I can out of the few months of life I have left and totally avoid any surgery, chemotherapy, amputations, ventilators, and the like. It would be a clean death. It would be okay. > My big fear, tho…

Why would that be the big fear?

It's ambiguous but maybe they mean a chronic disease instead? i.e. constant suffering but no end date.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#23

Post by nemo44x »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #12
camkego wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far, far, far down in the blog post at section III., the author says this: > I (and the doctors in my family whom I’ve asked) am pretty much like the doctors in the article. If I get a terminal disease, I want to wring what I can out of the few months of life I have left and totally avoid any surgery, chemotherapy, amputations, ventilators, and the like. It would be a clean death. It would be okay. > My big fear, tho…

Why would that be the big fear?

I think it means you get something like a degenerative COPD that just grinds you into the ground one suffering day after another while you’re in and out of hospitals, lose your mobility, and lose your basic organ functions; no chance to recover, just withering away neither quickly or slowly.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#24

Post by foolinaround »

WalterBright wrote: post #13
hirundo wrote: post #10

My mom struggled with lung cancer for two terrible years with cutting edge treatment, and died badly. My dad cared for her through that, and when his turn came five years later, he had no doubts. He refused all but palliative care and died in two months. What he saw once, a physician will see over and over ad nauseam. Having seen one of each, I'm not conflicted over which path I'd take.

On the other hand, my sister was told to put her affairs in order. She did the major surgery and the chemo, and just passed 10 years cancer free. Odds of her outcome were something like 5%. She's well aware of how lucky she is.

the age of your sister at the time of sickness should factor in, right?

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#25

Post by Spooky23 »

paulpauper wrote: post #14

Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopaedist and a mentor of mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival odds – from 5% to 15% – albeit with a poor quality of life. Charlie was uninterested…

With a major bowel surgery? You’re looking colostomy bag combined with a tough recovery. That means pressure sores, painful chemo or radiation, substandard care in rehab, etc. Plus, pancreatic cancer usually comes back in force once you run that gauntlet.

My dad went through some of that post-stroke. No way.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#26

Post by paulcole »

paulpauper wrote: post #14

Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopaedist and a mentor of mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival odds – from 5% to 15% – albeit with a poor quality of life. Charlie was uninterested…

15% for 5 years of unpleasant survival. Basically 0% chance for a “long” “normal” life after that.

My mother (who worked in medicine and was very healthy) was diagnosed with a GBM and had a brief course of radiation to try to shrink it without a ton of luck.

She stopped working and went home and had an OK year then an awful 4 months and then fell out of bed and broke her hip and never woke up.

She could’ve maybe had 2 or 3 pretty bad years if she’d “fought” and was “lucky.”

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#27

Post by magicalist »

foolinaround wrote: post #24
WalterBright wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, my sister was told to put her affairs in order. She did the major surgery and the chemo, and just passed 10 years cancer free. Odds of her outcome were something like 5%. She's well aware of how lucky she is.

the age of your sister at the time of sickness should factor in, right?

And the type of treatment

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#28

Post by mertd »

jt2190 wrote: post #5
advisedwang wrote: post #3

This doctor clearly has a vision for how he feels end of life should be, and then implies all (most) doctors share this and non-doctors should follow and doctors should be more vocal about the implied belief. I'm a bit warey of his assertion that all doctors think the same way as him though. He relies pretty heavily on his experience and a few anecdotes. I wonder if there is any actual data on how doctors view "futil…

Here’s some actual data: “Most physicians would forgo aggressive treatment for themselves at the end of life, study finds” https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2014/05/most-physicia...

Take it with a grain of salt just like any self reported study. Their preference may very well change when they become the patient.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#29

Post by KittenInABox »

paulpauper wrote: post #14

Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopaedist and a mentor of mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival odds – from 5% to 15% – albeit with a poor quality of life. Charlie was uninterested…

Pancreatic cancer has a notoriously low survival rate, and undergoing pancreatic cancer treatment is a horrible way to die.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#30

Post by fouc »

jerlam wrote: post #6

This is a pretty popular topic, and discussed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3313570 (2011) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5104430 (2013) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9260286 (2015) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13122408 (2016)

those 4 HN links refer to these 2 articles:

http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/feb/08/how-doctors-c...

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