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20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
411–420 of 969 posts
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#412The US is the only place I think I've had to remove shoes for flight security in years. But in Europe taking off a belt is often required while in the US it is not. In Budapest they stopped having us remove laptops from bags a bit ago. My biggest challenge over the years was remembering what to do in each place as the security people at the airports had a tendency to get upset if you didn't do it their preferred way.
> My biggest challenge over the years was remembering what to do in each place as the security people at the airports had a tendency to get upset if you didn't do it their preferred way. Exactly this. I'm sure to the security people, it feels obvious since it's what they do every day for hours consistently, but I agree that the inconsistency is very frustrating.
Hands behind your back
Hands up
Keep your hands where i can see them
.....etc
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#413So much security that not sense. I attend college football games. Everyone goes through security. Outside security we pack up in masses of humanity outside the gates waiting to get through the inevitably slow security. It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity there where there is no security ... than in the stadium where people are actually more spread out. If someon…
> nothing is stopping them from doing it at the gates where there is a reliable and unsecured mass of humanity,
Doing it at the gates is not going to be seen live by millions. Having it seen by the masses in real time and without warning is far more effective than having it merely reported.
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
4.5 million deaths from Covid so far.
From Covid or with covid (edit: I’m merely asking which stat you’re citing. Source?)? Ie the disease killed them or they tested positive while dying from something else?
the interesting thing I've found about those circles is that the followup is never discussed. they just stick with the earlier information and make it the hill they want to die on.
over the past 15 months, many organizations (including the CDC) municipalities (including within the US in democrat and republican areas) and countries have revisited old deaths and current death recording practices, in direct response to this observation and criticism
most times they end up finding more COVID deaths, different ones in greater quantity than the incorrectly recorded ones that shouldn't have been counted. sometimes there is a slight temporary downward death count adjustment. and more importantly, the aggregate stats everywhere already account for this. when news reports X-hundred thousand death milestone, its already factored in the corrected numbers.
what seems most important to me is that all ailments, especially respiratory ones, have the same recording and accounting discrepancies. if the aforementioned "those circles" were also the "just the flu" circles, then the gravity of COVID relative to the flu (or anything else) would still be seen from the original flawed recording standard, because all prior year’s flu numbers are polluted the same way. makes it hard to view those circles as a better alternative to listen to, when the flaws of the established authorities still point to an aggregate good enough signal.
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Terrorism" in the broad sense of the act does not have a goal. Because it is a means to an end, not an end itself. Terrorists do what they do for many reasons. Some are political, some are due to sectarianism. Sometimes its because they are crazy and have irrational motivations. Rarely is it the goal of the terrorist to force a society into tyranny. Timothy McVeigh was seeking revenge. Bin Laden was trying to force…
It can be an end to itself and it often is: retaliation
No that's still an agenda. Nobody becomes a terrorist just because. There is always a motivation and goal. You say retaliation makes it an end to itself but I give as a counter Timothy McVeigh. He was seeking revenge and sending a message. Terrorism is a tactic used to achieve a specific goal.
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity Maybe it is about shifting the blame. If something happens outside, it's the police failure but if something happens inside it is venue management failure. Anyway, I completely agree that we have given up way too much in the name of security. If it's not the terrorist, then it is "think of the children" scare and we are abou…
The new thing is "think of grandma". Say delta variant enough and you can get anyone to give up anything. Post covid is like post 9/11. This is the new normal. Vaccine passports and all.
Thinking of other people and getting a vaccine and going on with your life without much of any impact seems like a very low bar.
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#417So much security that not sense. I attend college football games. Everyone goes through security. Outside security we pack up in masses of humanity outside the gates waiting to get through the inevitably slow security. It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity there where there is no security ... than in the stadium where people are actually more spread out. If someon…
> It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity there where there is no security
Maybe the goal is to protect the people that are inside... players, managers, etc...
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the United States specifically, another good argument for this training to be in place is the importance given to the second amendment, the rationale of which is to have “a well regulated militia”. One would assume that everyone being well trained is part of that.
Isn't the national guard serving that role ? Normal citizens with regular training under well controlled regulations.
Perhaps all adults should have that training.
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mass loss of life. Novel way in which people died. People dying randomly (hard to avoid). General hysteria. Paranoia over a minority group. Moral outrage against anyone not falling inline politically. Overreaching government plans to keep people safe. Petty symbolism (freedom fries/masks) to sort the moral from the immoral. Should I go on?
You think masks are petty symbolism? I think that kind of trolling just raises the temperature here, which I'd like to avoid, so no, please, do not go on.
Are you still not aware that there are serious people who believe that masks are basically irrelevant in a respiratory pandemic? Accusing others of trolling on this issue is not helpful. It was the consensus in Western medicine for 100 years. This consensus was forged after mask mandates were shown to be ineffective for Spanish Flu.
Here's what a Harvard epidemiologist has to say about the Bangladesh study:
"The Bangladesh mask study does not show a statistically significant difference in the efficacy of cloth masks vs surgical masks. Based on the confidence intervals, both could be around 0% or both could be around 20%."
https://twitter.com/MartinKulldorff/status/14355739027894640...
Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
The new thing is "think of grandma". Say delta variant enough and you can get anyone to give up anything. Post covid is like post 9/11. This is the new normal. Vaccine passports and all.
Thinking of other people and getting a vaccine and going on with your life without much of any impact seems like a very low bar.
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