Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#781

Post by twic » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

satronaut wrote: post #713

Nursie wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say what I said on the other thread - If you want to present an argument against quarantine being needed or warranted, please go ahead. Checking in on the app is the least intrusive of the three options - quarantine under guard (usually in a hotel, like the one I'm in right now), quarantine at home with police visits tio ensure compliance, or quarantine at home checking in to the app once or twice a day. In this…

you forgot number 4, be treated like an adult and just stay home for 2 weeks and not have the government check to see if you're at home like you're on house arrest while not having committed a crime

> be treated like an adult and just stay home for 2 weeks

Ah yes, that thing adults routinely do.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#782

Post by AndrewBissell » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

ls612 wrote: post #776

throwanem wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does a global pandemic that's killed millions worldwide.

Nah that was just taken from the history books. It was our totalitarian response that was from the dystopian novel.

The historical ignorance around Covid and other pandemics, and the way people act as though it was some unprecedented event that justifies the unprecedented reaction, is really stunning.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#783

Post by UnpossibleJim » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #754

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important take away from these sorts of restrictions, though, are such state powers set to end when the pandemic is controlled or terminated? I'm not from Australia, so I can't speak to their power systems, but almost every time our federal institutions take a more broader domestic power towards spying, restricting speech, restricting movement, etc. etc. those powers don't come back at the end of the panic, whate…

I guess I don’t understand this concern, because it doesn’t seem historically accurate. There have been many pandemics in the past. Governments have responded in the past with aggressive quarantines. Yet, before this current pandemic, no country had aggressive quarantines in place. These kinds of restrictions imposed by governments have historically disappeared with high reliability when the situation calling for the…

Maybe, but in the past no government has had access to the tracking data we are freely allowing them to have to us.

I sound like I'm an anti vax conspiracy theorist, and I don't want to put that across, but there is a strong precedent for abuse of power in every government across the globe. A lot of draconian measures ease when the panic is over, but shadows of them seem to remain in place, at least in the U.S. (again, I can't speak for Australia).

EDIT:

Here's an example of how anti Covid measures are being used to stop protests.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/states-are...

Now, hopefully this will be transparent and end when Covid is over, but that's the question. When is Covid officially over?

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#784

Post by _fat_santa » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #436

roody15 wrote: post #269

I simply cannot wrap my mind around what is happening in Australia. Continuing a lockwdown while the number of positive covid cases remains in the low hundreds and the daily death rate in the lower tens to single digits. Nothing makes sense here. Draconian laws, complete shutdown over something that is and has been statistically under control and managed from months. Am I alone here or do people really think what is…

Perhaps you're misinformed. The laws the article is talking about are the big problem - they're Federal and permanent (at least until we have a sane Government elected to reform and repeal them). The COVID lockdowns are all operating under temporary state of emergencies under the State Governments. There's no actual reason to think they will be 'extended forever' like some crazies seem to think. For several states, o…

It's not misinformation, it's that were looking at Australia from the outside. If you live in the US, pretty much any and all restrictions have been lifted for daily life. You see that there are still Covid cases and deaths, but they have dwindled in comparison to last year and life is pretty much back to how it was Pre-pandemic.

So it's absolutely insane to see that for the same or less daily Covid cases/deaths, Australia is going into lockdowns and imposing draconian restrictions. That's the disconnect between for many of us. At least in the US, any politician even suggesting such measures nowadays would be politically crucified.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#785

Post by modo_mario » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #583

gambiting wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had to do a 14 day quarantine in the UK at home, and frankly, it was a bit of a joke. Literally no one has ever checked we were actually at home, the amount of trust in the population is insane over here. We actually stayed at home the entire time, but I know people who didn't, they had to go to work to make a living and the fine was like a £100. In contrast, in Poland if you are told to quarantine you will get…

Rather have the country focus on a mass vaccination drive than trying to do a full China style lockdown. In hindsight the unlimited money spent on healthcare and a collective willingness to take the corona pill works better than whatever Australia is trying to do.

>Rather have the country focus on a mass vaccination drive

Which is a bit difficult in a lot of places due to international demand.

>than trying to do a full China style lockdown.

Tbh the seemingly extreme chinese lockdown ended with them having less overall restriction in the long run from what i've seen. it's too late to try that here now but i probably would have preferred it. People are much less impacted by severe limitation on international travel than a severe limitation on social and personal life.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#786

Post by AndrewBissell » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #573

sandworm101 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> rather than stay at a quarantine facility. Nobody is being forced to use the app. Download the app or we send you to a camp? That isn't much of a choice. I'd say it is about as non-choice as possible while still meeting the literal definition.

I'll say what I said on the other thread - If you want to present an argument against quarantine being needed or warranted, please go ahead. Checking in on the app is the least intrusive of the three options - quarantine under guard (usually in a hotel, like the one I'm in right now), quarantine at home with police visits tio ensure compliance, or quarantine at home checking in to the app once or twice a day. In this…

I'll present an argument against quarantine being warranted: Covid-19 is an endemic virus for which there are no sterilizing vaccines and hence "zero Covid" policy frameworks are an insane and hopeless attempt to turn back the tides. You will either live under these restrictions for the rest of your lives, or give them up and eventually be exposed to the virus.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#787

Post by chopin » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

bluefirebrand wrote: post #722

tikwidd wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be referring to the South Australia Home Quarantine app [1]. There has been a lot of misinformation circulating about this app recently. I'd just like to clear up some things: The app only applies to people that need to quarantine, not the general population. The app allows people who are required to isolate to opt to do their isolation at home, rather than stay at a quarantine facility. Nobody is being f…

> The app allows people who are required to isolate to opt to do their isolation at home, rather than stay at a quarantine facility. Nobody is being forced to use the app Weird. In Canada we're allowed to isolate at home without a wildly intrusive app, or police visits or anything like that. We get a fine if we are caught out when we are required to isolate, that's all. Personally if my government was proposing this…

Bad thing that there's almost nowhere to move. Almost everybody has their intrusive model to cope with Covid.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#788

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #756

roody15 wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ The app allows people who are required to isolate to opt to do their isolation at home, rather than stay at a quarantine facility.” Sounds just like this was taken from a dystopian novel.

So does a global pandemic that's killed millions worldwide.

[deleted]

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#789

Post by exodust » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

0xdeadb00f wrote: post #308

roody15 wrote: post #269

I simply cannot wrap my mind around what is happening in Australia. Continuing a lockwdown while the number of positive covid cases remains in the low hundreds and the daily death rate in the lower tens to single digits. Nothing makes sense here. Draconian laws, complete shutdown over something that is and has been statistically under control and managed from months. Am I alone here or do people really think what is…

This talk about "Draconian" lockdown in Australia needs to stop. Our privacy and digital rights laws are awful. But the lockdowns are necessary. NSW had upward of 1000+ cases and that's why they're (still) in a strict lockdown. QLD and i beleive WA as well for example are not in lockdown at all because of their much much lower daily cases. Also, "50 cases in a nation of millions"? I dont know where you're getting you…

> This talk about "Draconian" lockdown in Australia needs to stop.

Actually, telling people to stop talking is what needs to stop.

Here in Victoria we're in our 6th lockdown. 220 days of lockdown since last year. Today there were 221 covid cases reported in Victoria. 87 people in hospital - that's not a daily rate, that's total. These are not big numbers.

We have an angry Premier who yells and threatens. Together with his side-kick health officer, they condemn people for taking their kids to park or watching the sunset. [1]

When watching the sunset is considered immoral, it's time to break out the word Draconian.

We have a curfew here in Melbourne. This means everyone must visit the supermarket in reduced opening hours, increasing density in those places. There is no evidence curfews work. Mask mandates outdoors even when by yourself is another useless signalling technique. Australian authorities love their signalling and behavioral manipulation.

They love blaming the lockdowns on the community. They love their new unchallenged surveillance powers and privacy compromising backdoors. They are ecstatic about the idea of mandating apps and vaccine passports for entry to cafes and venues.

People here are vaccinated enough. A high proportion of older and vulnerable people are vaccinated. Young and healthy people would not fill the hospital beds if lockdowns ended. There may be a small surge, but it would level out, we would deal with it. Lockdowns are doing more harm than good at this point. 80% vaccination target is not a magic number from the Gods.

[1] https://headtopics.com/au/andrews-slams-sunset-lovers-breaki...

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#790

Post by modo_mario » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #616

Mordisquitos wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet government agents shooting unsuspecting non-criminals in their own home, after mistaking the address or responding to a malicious fake emergency call, is a line that is only crossed in the country with the Second Amendment.

Yeah, plus they're practically the only country that hasn't had serious government threatening civil unrest for 160 years and they still brag about guns. Heck, the only real recent unrest of that magnitude, the takeover of Capitol, was without guns as far as I remember. As in, no standoff.

>Yeah, plus they're practically the only country that hasn't had serious government threatening civil unrest for 160 years and they still brag about guns.

There was that miners strike which got bombed.