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20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

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Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#131

Post by brigandish »

iso1210 wrote: post #65
depaya wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never liked the argument "how many shoe bombs have been intercepted?" or "how many terrorists have been stopped?" when it comes to TSA-style security. The presence of the security isn't necessarily meant to find people in the act of carrying out terrorism , it's mean to deter it in the first place since you will be found out (well, in theory anyway...). It's impossible to quantify how many plots have been deterr…

I have a rock that deters tigers you might want to buy

In Greece I would sometimes encounter packs of aggressive dogs roaming the streets. If you bend down and reach for the ground like you're about to pick up a stone then they disperse immediately. There doesn't even need to be a stone there.

I've not had the chance to try it with a tiger but if it works with them too then I'm afraid you won't fetch much for your stone.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#133

Post by titzer »

tyingq wrote: post #8

The interesting part to me is that the mode of attack for 9/11 can't easily be repeated. It depended on passengers assuming the plane was being hijacked, and that they would eventually be released. That stopped working on the 3rd (edit: 4th) plane. I don't see how it would work again. Passengers now default to assuming there's no path to live other than fighting back. Meaning many of the measures we still take aren't…

> That stopped working on the 3rd plane.

4th plane. The third plane hit the Pentagon.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#134

Post by overboard2 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #82
baktubi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the nation should make military training/civil service mandatory. The reality is that random attacks will happen in random places and everyone needs to be equipped to handle accordingly. Basic combat training and paramedic abilities, disaster recovery and such associated procedures. This would create a tighter bond between citizens and improve communities ability to look after one-another. If everyone handles…

>> military training/civil service mandatory. >> Basic combat training and paramedic abilities Those are very different things. Not every soldier is taught hand-to-hand combat. Not every civil service volunteer is taught to handle a weapon. And basic first aid training is almost universal already. More lives could probably be saves by everyone being trained in basic mental health and de-escalation techniques.

What if they don't want to be de-escalated?

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#135

Post by bluedevil2k »

trident5000 wrote: post #70
baktubi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the nation should make military training/civil service mandatory. The reality is that random attacks will happen in random places and everyone needs to be equipped to handle accordingly. Basic combat training and paramedic abilities, disaster recovery and such associated procedures. This would create a tighter bond between citizens and improve communities ability to look after one-another. If everyone handles…

Im in favor of people concealed carrying for this exact reason...distributed security works better than slow centralized security and a vulnerable public. Obviously this doesnt work for a plane though. Fully expect to get downvoted for this on HN...because its HN.

You’re vastly overrating the ability of the common American to make rational decisions. In a stressful situation where a gun may be necessary, without proper and continual training, that ability drops to near 0. Look at the police - they use their guns incorrectly all the time and they’re trained peace officers. An average American, in an argument, maybe mix in some alcohol, with a gun in their pocket…many many senseless murders.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#136

Post by justin66 »

GDC7 wrote: post #60

And of course everybody ignores trains, they don't even look at you...like the 300 souls aboard a train don't matter. Also the 10000+ souls at the departing and arrival train station also don't matter. Not to mention the 4000 souls aboard cruise ships. It ain't about safety from ill-intentioned people...it's about protecting the POTUS from having to give the order to open fire on an hijacked civilian plane. That's th…

> And of course everybody ignores trains, they don't even look at you...like the 300 souls aboard a train don't matter.

Plenty of people are harassed by DEA, customs or immigration on Amtrak trains. They don't seem too concerned with terrorism or souls, though.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#137

Post by ChoGGi »

atatatat wrote: post #126
baybal2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would, no doubt. I Russia, despite a nominal ban, you can buy a gun on the vegetable market, but nobody seem to be going, and shooting people out of a sudden other that 2-3 freak accidents per year. Being murdered in a banal armed robbery is a by far bigger risk.

Vegetable market?

Inform/flea market

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#138

Post by trident5000 »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #135
trident5000 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im in favor of people concealed carrying for this exact reason...distributed security works better than slow centralized security and a vulnerable public. Obviously this doesnt work for a plane though. Fully expect to get downvoted for this on HN...because its HN.

You’re vastly overrating the ability of the common American to make rational decisions. In a stressful situation where a gun may be necessary, without proper and continual training, that ability drops to near 0. Look at the police - they use their guns incorrectly all the time and they’re trained peace officers. An average American, in an argument, maybe mix in some alcohol, with a gun in their pocket…many many sense…

Not every person is going to carry a gun. And you need to be trained. Thats a requirement to concealed carry today.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#139

Post by atatatat »

trident5000 wrote: post #70
baktubi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the nation should make military training/civil service mandatory. The reality is that random attacks will happen in random places and everyone needs to be equipped to handle accordingly. Basic combat training and paramedic abilities, disaster recovery and such associated procedures. This would create a tighter bond between citizens and improve communities ability to look after one-another. If everyone handles…

Im in favor of people concealed carrying for this exact reason...distributed security works better than slow centralized security and a vulnerable public. Obviously this doesnt work for a plane though. Fully expect to get downvoted for this on HN...because its HN.

> Obviously this doesnt work for a plane though.

I was thinking it absolutely does, unless everyone from more than 3ft away starts shooting.

Doubly so if we're talking knives or other sidearms.

Sikh logic, wildly underrated.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#140

Post by taway234qt »

wycy wrote: post #89
the_snooze wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. It's not a 9/11-style attack we need to be worried about. No one will let a plane get commandeered ever again. The 9/11 terrorists took advantage of the "comply with the hijackers" policy in place at the time. That opportunity ended the moment the second plane hit the towers. The real threat is lone wolf random attacks on the general public like the DC sniper. That's a very low-cost high-impact attack tha…

> The real threat is lone wolf random attacks on the general public like the DC sniper. That's a very low-cost high-impact attack that paralyzed an entire metro region for nearly a month. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.C._sniper_attacks Considering how many crazy, extremely radicalized people are out there, I'm surprised attacks like this aren't much more common.

>> Considering how many crazy, extremely radicalized people are out there, I'm surprised attacks like this aren't much more common.

They are extremely common, except the main stream "liberal" media's definition of "radicalized" and "attack" doesnt include the most common incidents. If "radicalized" means brown, yes, it isnt common.

If "radicalized" could be expanded to literally hundreds of incidents of ethno-religious-nationalist crazies who kill with guns -- it is actually really common in the US. Except whenever this happens, people instead just talk about how perps were "deeply disturbed" and needed help, rather than classifying it as "attack" or "terror"

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