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20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

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Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#71

Post by _ph_ »

k__ wrote: post #38
tyingq wrote: post #8

The interesting part to me is that the mode of attack for 9/11 can't easily be repeated. It depended on passengers assuming the plane was being hijacked, and that they would eventually be released. That stopped working on the 3rd (edit: 4th) plane. I don't see how it would work again. Passengers now default to assuming there's no path to live other than fighting back. Meaning many of the measures we still take aren't…

To be fair, while not as big as flying a plane into the WTC, blowing one up would still be possible.

Yes, but that has rarely happened in history. And to prevent that, we do scan the luggage and make sure that there is no unidentified luggage on the plane.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#72

Post by sovnade »

tyingq wrote: post #8

The interesting part to me is that the mode of attack for 9/11 can't easily be repeated. It depended on passengers assuming the plane was being hijacked, and that they would eventually be released. That stopped working on the 3rd (edit: 4th) plane. I don't see how it would work again. Passengers now default to assuming there's no path to live other than fighting back. Meaning many of the measures we still take aren't…

The passengers re-taking the third plane was a stroke of luck. That flight was actually delayed long enough that passengers were making phone calls to friends and family and heard that the first plane (or two) had already crashed, so they knew what was happening. That's when they decided to storm the cockpit. Had they not been delayed, they probably wouldn't have known and not retaken the plane.

edit: but agreed - point being we know now if a plane is hijacked, there's very little chance of it coming down peacefully.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#73

Post by nemo44x »

aww_dang wrote: post #15

If you liked expanded government powers necessitated by the War on Terror, you're going to love the new biosecurity state. Remember, it is for your own safety! >“I don’t see it changing,” said Lora Ries, a senior research fellow at The Heritage Foundation, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank. “It never seems to be fewer requirements … the direction always seems to be for more.” >Security screening, he said, will also…

>Security screening, he said, will also be expanded to passenger drop-off points and airport and off-airport parking lots, in addition to walkways and tunnels approaching departure and ticket kiosks.

That's the protocol in Israel. The airport is fairly isolated and before you can even get on the entry road your car is pulled over. Outside the airport entrance there are dogs and officers and then you go through security before you even get to baggage drop off and then another security for some questioning, etc. You are deemed suspicious if you don't arrive a few hours before your flight. Any drinks you buy after security are taken away as your carry on baggage is looked at one more time before you board. I often buy a couple liters of water before long trips and the to have them taken away (and probably put back on the shelves and sold!) before boarding was a bit annoying.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#75

Post by baybal2 »

noetic_techy wrote: post #47

I'll take it a step further. We need a total paradigm redesign of airports. Imagine and airport designed to the point where you can literally drive up (or be dropped by an autonomous vehicle) 10 minutes before your flight, Throw your luggage onto a belt where a robot auto tags it based on your a facial recognition algorithm, and walk through an unobtrusive security point that's totally AI driven, and walk direct to y…

It just needs to be abandoned. No point talking about it more.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#76

Post by jpxw »

yalogin wrote: post #30

The TSA is just a huge scam to siphon money and they need to show they are providing value. Taking shoes off is that value, so yeah it’s never going away. We could get out of Afghanistan but will never get rid of the TSA.

Maybe. I think at least part of the reason is political though.

Nobody wants to be the person who scraps a security policy and then has a terrorist attack happen as a result of their policy removal. Not politicians, not TSA higher-ups, nobody. That's a career-ending mistake, no matter how unlikely it may be.

Not to mention that it's probably not a particularly popular decision amongst the public. Maybe it's security theatre, but people like it.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#78

Post by Tenoke »

101008 wrote: post #54
stoolpigeon wrote: post #18

The US is the only place I think I've had to remove shoes for flight security in years. But in Europe taking off a belt is often required while in the US it is not. In Budapest they stopped having us remove laptops from bags a bit ago. My biggest challenge over the years was remembering what to do in each place as the security people at the airports had a tendency to get upset if you didn't do it their preferred way.

I always though taking off a belt it was bcause if not the metal sensor would trigger, so to avoid it, they just ask to remove your belt in case it contains metal?

It is. I don't take off my belts with no metal parts in Europe and it's been fine. Once they even asked me and I said 'no metal' so they didn't press.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#80

Post by baktubi »

pharmakom wrote: post #67
baktubi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the nation should make military training/civil service mandatory. The reality is that random attacks will happen in random places and everyone needs to be equipped to handle accordingly. Basic combat training and paramedic abilities, disaster recovery and such associated procedures. This would create a tighter bond between citizens and improve communities ability to look after one-another. If everyone handles…

Wouldnt that also equip many attackers with better skills?

It would equip everyone with better skills. But more important would be the sense of community involvement—most attackers have a disease of the mind brought on by isolation and lack of empathy.
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