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We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

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101–110 of 165 posts

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Photosynthesis is limited by the availability of light, water, co2 and warmth.

This is like saying my computer's performance in a game is limited by CPU, GPU, and RAM while my CPU is maxed out 90% of the time.

So CO2 is the equivalent of your CPU. It is currently nowhere near what is needed to run at full efficiency. Look at the lower levels of a forest or the inside of a thick bush and then try and tell me that light is not a limiting factor.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#103
post #95

This assumes that global warming is the problem, but arguably the most pressing aspect of carbon pollution is the acidification of the oceans which this plan would not address. It might make more sense to focus on capturing carbon pollution than to mitigate some of the side effects of rampant carbon pollution.

I had a nightmare where we tried to bioengineer something to eat the ocean plastics and it was too successful. It ate all plastic but turned the ocean full of algae killing nearly all marine life.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#104
I'm pretty sure this is a plot point in the Mistborn trilogy

[spoiler]

the planet is getting hot because the all-powerful entity messed up, so it makes big clouds, which in turn kill all the plants, so he makes all plants able to run with less light ..

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#105
post #95

This assumes that global warming is the problem, but arguably the most pressing aspect of carbon pollution is the acidification of the oceans which this plan would not address. It might make more sense to focus on capturing carbon pollution than to mitigate some of the side effects of rampant carbon pollution.

It also turns out that SRM might not even be able to save us if things get really bad. The marine stratocumulus clouds they talk about depend on being able to cool to space (at the top). If you increase CO2 too much, this can no-longer happen, causing a collapse of the cloud system and a large decrease in planetary albedo (and hence warming) [0]. These SRM techniques are no silver bullet.

However, as other have pointed out, this might be able to buy us some time to develop negative emissions technology (which is ultimately the only way out). Hopefully we would use that time wisely.

[0]- https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-019-0310-1

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#106
post #72

All these half assed solutions perpetuate the idea that we can stay on our exponential quest for growth/energy and just find "solutions" later. Climate change is only a small part of the equation; pollution, deforestation, destruction of biodiversity, &c. are all equally problematic. As long as we produce and consume more and more we won't get away from the inevitable. At some point we'll run out of half assed soluti…

Half assed solutions are still better than nothing.

Are they ?

If your house is on fire and you use an ice cube to cool your neck it'll feel good for a bit too, but you would achieve nothing, or even worse, you'd be under the impression of doing something while losing precious time.

We know what the right solutions are, but doing the right things is hard, hence we focus on meaningless half assed solution which are, in the end, only aggravating the situation. Notice how all these solutions always are about adding things to the system, never about slowing down, using less, producing less.

At the end of the day every single metric point to the fact that we're fucking up big time and that our slow incremental half assed solutions are nowhere near enough. The best case scenarios of our best current solutions are still not enough, and we're never meeting our own "not enough" goals.

You don't fix a problem by fixing it's final symptoms

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#107
post #95

This assumes that global warming is the problem, but arguably the most pressing aspect of carbon pollution is the acidification of the oceans which this plan would not address. It might make more sense to focus on capturing carbon pollution than to mitigate some of the side effects of rampant carbon pollution.

I'm not sure I buy that, but sure, both are important problems. Question, what do we know about the ocean as a carbon sink? Is it's capture rate variable with anthing? Is it easier to capture carbon from the ocean than in the air? Could we try to increase the capture rate into the ocean and then extract rapidly from the same area?

It's "easier" to capture from water in chemical terms but harder to actually move the water. I think the economy of moving the weight of water makes this a nonstarter.

Also yes, ocean acidification is likely to be the bigger immediate problem. People depend heavily on fish protein and other sealife. That plus poor farming yields will be bad.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#109
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like most of the brighter clouds generated would be over the ocean in this particular scenario, so shouldn’t affect plants too much.

Just plankton and algae and the largest ecosystem on the planet, right? There's always a gotcha, because nature is a chaotic, complex system that is mathematically impossible to account for all the consequences of exercising leverage.

I did think of that, but then also thought that since oceanic plant life move around with currents, they wouldn't be deprived of sunlight all the time. But yes, as you point out, nobody knows all the consequences. It sounds like they're actually doing research and experiments to validate their idea, so whatever model they use will hopefully take these kinds of secondary and tertiary effects into account.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. Sure, everyone reading and responding to this did profit from CO2 emissions for sure, but reducing emissions without going back to the stone-age is perfectly possible and this should be clear to anyone : We could simply start taxing Co2 emissions, which would boost renewable energy buildout INSTANTLY: One example: Right now, electricity (and concrete) are DIRT cheap-- my electricity bill is a com…

I'm sorry to be this blunt but you're completely out of touch with reality. In the whole of Europe electricity prices are currently through the roof, marking records on many countries... daily . [edit: mostly because CO2 emission taxes and because gas producing countries can charge whatever they want because the whole continent (but France) depends on them] Just because people (normal everyday working-class) people p…

It would already have a significant impact if people stopped (most likely against their own will) buying anything they don't really need. Brainless consumerism, buying material stuff simply because it makes you feel good for a while should be stopped through global government intervention.

The amount of clothes, electronics, food and such that gets wasted is just enormous on our societies. Only places in the world where people live somewhat ecologically are those where they simply can't afford such waste. So, IMO everything that isn't a basic necessity should be made much more expensive to force people rethink their consumption habits.

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