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We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

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Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#71

Post by phreeza »

myrmidon wrote: post #66
TillE wrote: post #2

I think I'm a relative optimist about global warming because there are a number of possible climate engineering interventions which seem fairly cheap and could plausibly buy us another decade or so. I can imagine a future where perhaps India or China decides to act on their own to this effect, risks be damned.

I'm extremely sceptical that climate engineering is gonna help: Mitigating continued CO2 emissions is VASTLY more expensive than reducing emissions themselves (in every scenario I've seen so far), and we had 4 decades (!!) to do anything about the emissions but nothing happened. I see no reason to assume that governments are suddenly going to spend significant parts of GDP on climate engineering if they could not be…

You're right from a financial standpoint, but I wonder if from a psychological standpoint, it is easier for humans to start doing something new than it is to stop doing something they have been doing for a long time?

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#72

Post by lm28469 »

All these half assed solutions perpetuate the idea that we can stay on our exponential quest for growth/energy and just find "solutions" later.

Climate change is only a small part of the equation; pollution, deforestation, destruction of biodiversity, &c. are all equally problematic. As long as we produce and consume more and more we won't get away from the inevitable.

At some point we'll run out of half assed solutions and we'll have to face the consequences. So yeah, make the clouds brighter and paint the rooftops of buildings white, I'm sure it'll help a loooot.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#73

Post by myrmidon »

boublepop wrote: post #62
widescape wrote: post #61

…or we could simply stop emitting greenhouse gases. Like, right now.

Stanley wrote on his greenhouse gas powered device from the comfort of his greenhouse gas powered office environment at his greenhouse gas powered employer that his favorite greenhouse gas powered transportation vehicle had brought him to, while slacking of from his day job which was to significantly increased the life quality of millions of people while emitting greenhouse gases. I think you’ve found a great solutio…

What a load of crap.

Sure, everyone reading and responding to this did profit from CO2 emissions for sure, but reducing emissions without going back to the stone-age is perfectly possible and this should be clear to anyone:

We could simply start taxing Co2 emissions, which would boost renewable energy buildout INSTANTLY:

One example: Right now, electricity (and concrete) are DIRT cheap-- my electricity bill is a complete joke compared to e.g. groceries (or mobile data, even).

Significant electricity costs (like 1$/kwh) would definitely help reduce emissions, and this could easily be done in a way that would not completely ruin the poorer half of the population by moving other taxes correspondingly.

This is just not done because people (and their governments) simply don't care enough (still!).

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#75

Post by FredPret »

myrmidon wrote: post #73
boublepop wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stanley wrote on his greenhouse gas powered device from the comfort of his greenhouse gas powered office environment at his greenhouse gas powered employer that his favorite greenhouse gas powered transportation vehicle had brought him to, while slacking of from his day job which was to significantly increased the life quality of millions of people while emitting greenhouse gases. I think you’ve found a great solutio…

What a load of crap. Sure, everyone reading and responding to this did profit from CO2 emissions for sure, but reducing emissions without going back to the stone-age is perfectly possible and this should be clear to anyone : We could simply start taxing Co2 emissions, which would boost renewable energy buildout INSTANTLY: One example: Right now, electricity (and concrete) are DIRT cheap-- my electricity bill is a com…

Uhhhh, no. What about electricity that goes into mining and manufacturing? If you raise the price of that, all goods become more expensive, from the simple Mars bar up to construction. The poor will be decimated.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#76

Post by mavhc »

FredPret wrote: post #75
myrmidon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. Sure, everyone reading and responding to this did profit from CO2 emissions for sure, but reducing emissions without going back to the stone-age is perfectly possible and this should be clear to anyone : We could simply start taxing Co2 emissions, which would boost renewable energy buildout INSTANTLY: One example: Right now, electricity (and concrete) are DIRT cheap-- my electricity bill is a com…

Uhhhh, no. What about electricity that goes into mining and manufacturing? If you raise the price of that, all goods become more expensive, from the simple Mars bar up to construction. The poor will be decimated.

Companies will compete to find ways to produce things with less pollution if they can't cheat and pollute without paying.

And other companies will compete to find cheaper ways to remove pollution, lowering costs for those who pollute.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#77

Post by Avalaxy »

Seb-C wrote: post #56
TillE wrote: post #2

I think I'm a relative optimist about global warming because there are a number of possible climate engineering interventions which seem fairly cheap and could plausibly buy us another decade or so. I can imagine a future where perhaps India or China decides to act on their own to this effect, risks be damned.

I'm quite optimistic about this too. Sure, we have to reduce our impact on the climate and be responsible about it, but even in the worst case scenario, I'm confident that we'll just find a way to deal with it. The current apocalyptic scenarios we see on the medias is too extreme and pessimistic. "If the Earth can't support seven billion people, then all seven billion of us just have to figure out a way! That's how s…

> The current apocalyptic scenarios we see on the medias is too extreme and pessimistic

Source? If anything, scientists have been too conservative in their warnings. Time and time again, we see that climate change is going _much_ faster than we anticipated.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#78

Post by pessimizer »

FredPret wrote: post #75
myrmidon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a load of crap. Sure, everyone reading and responding to this did profit from CO2 emissions for sure, but reducing emissions without going back to the stone-age is perfectly possible and this should be clear to anyone : We could simply start taxing Co2 emissions, which would boost renewable energy buildout INSTANTLY: One example: Right now, electricity (and concrete) are DIRT cheap-- my electricity bill is a com…

Uhhhh, no. What about electricity that goes into mining and manufacturing? If you raise the price of that, all goods become more expensive, from the simple Mars bar up to construction. The poor will be decimated.

The poor are decimated when we allow them to be, not when prices rise by 50%.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#79

Post by willis936 »

alexgmcm wrote: post #67

What concerns me about almost all of the Solar Radiation Management (SRM) proposals is that they don't address the root issue of high Greenhouse Gas (GHG) concentrations. This means that we would have to continue them indefinitely, forever, without fail. (I'm assuming that we would just use the SRM measures to continue with business as usual, but having seen our progress against GHG emissions so far, that doesn't see…

>This means that we would have to continue them indefinitely, forever, without fail.

This kind of all or nothing rhetoric is damaging to actual progress. Solutions are not mutually exclusive. We can do both. One treats the symptom and buys us a few decades without having to suffer a 4C air temperature rise (and the billions of needlessly lost lives and indeterminate human suffering). The other fixes it in the long term.

Re: We Could Brighten Clouds to Cool the Earth

#80

Post by FredPret »

pessimizer wrote: post #78
FredPret wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhhh, no. What about electricity that goes into mining and manufacturing? If you raise the price of that, all goods become more expensive, from the simple Mars bar up to construction. The poor will be decimated.

The poor are decimated when we allow them to be, not when prices rise by 50%.

OK, let’s jack up prices for everything from food to infrastructure but in a magical way that doesn’t harm low-income people. Great plan bro
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