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Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

digitalrightswatch.org.au

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Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#621

Post by talaketu »

relativ575 wrote: post #432
runako wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I am not a lawyer.) The USA recognized same sex marriage in 2015, but we did so via a Supreme Court ruling. The Court's composition has changed since then, and the new Court has signaled a willingness to overturn settled precedents. While our current detent may persist, I would imagine that an action taken by the Australian Parliament would tend to be more durable.

> I would imagine that an action taken by the Australian Parliament would tend to be more durable. I'm curious to understand why you'd think a law passed by elected lawmakers is more durable than a verdict by judges who have their position for life? Obacare was surely very controversial, but despite the best efforts by the conservative and an ideologically hostile Supreme Court, it remains in place after ten years.

The Australian Constitution is heavyweight on the mechanics of federal government, and how heads of power are divided between the state and federal governments, and the role of the court to adjudicate, but quite lightweight on peoples "inalienable rights". There's no "bill of rights" - though there are certain principals like "natural justice" and "customary law". Parliaments are empowered to legislate, and that's what they do. So it's comparatively rare that the court will discover some basis to neuter legislation - though it does happen.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#622

Post by gonzo41 »

stephen_g wrote: post #387
siquick wrote: post #37

I've lived in Australia for 10 years and really considering my familys future in this country. We are sleep-walking towards a very average future. An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will…

The next election is critical, I think. Need a minority Labor Government with a strong crossbench - neither major party ruling in their own right will make any moves in the right direction for the country at this point...

We need a labor government to call a royal commission into Murdoch's influence in Australian politics. Truth in media laws and the immigration minister needs to revoke Australian citizenships of a few people in those orgs who could rightly be considered malicious non stat actors.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#624

Post by numair »

melbourne_mat wrote: post #534
numair wrote: post #151

I’ve spent a bit of time in Australia. When I compared the caliber of people who worked in tech and venture to those in mining and law enforcement, it was night and day. There’s a TON of smart people at companies like Woodside, and lots of smart people at the Australian Federal Police (to the extent where the US and other countries rely on them for help in tricky technical situations). The tech and VC crowd seemed to…

I'm Australian. Your argument seems to be "If only the tech sector in Australia had some smart people". That's nice but I don't think that's what is going on. Most of the general public is apathetic to this kind of thing. They just don't get worked up like Americans do about freedom. Especially in the middle of an epidemic (covid19 is now out of control in the two biggest cities). We have a conservative government at…

I think you greatly overestimate how “worked up” Americans get. In reality, there is an enormous amount of lobbying and horse-trading that goes on behind the scenes whenever Washington wants to do anything that touches the tech and telecom sectors. Tech and telecom are seen as areas that drive tremendous economic value and national power, so they have the ability to bend things to go their way.

Australia is quite the opposite. The tech industry is a bit like a spoiled, privileged trust fund kid who shows up to the family holding company’s board meetings in flip-flops and a t-shirt and makes a lot of demands. I’m pretty sure the tech/VC industries take more from the government, in the form of mining revenue-funded tax and incentive credits and fast-track high-net-worth immigration residence schemes that require parking money in VC funds, than they contribute back to the Treasury. In fact, I would posit that the state of Western Australia’s share of mining-related tax revenue this past fiscal year was greater than all of the taxes paid by all of Australia’s tech companies combined. (I could be wrong, but it sure feels like I’d be proven correct.)

And on the side of law enforcement and ASIO, well, public sector employees and unions have a LOT of political power. If you think union members are going to vote in favor of policies endorsed by tech plutocrats than those being pushed by their counterparts at other unions... It’s time to go talk to a couple union bosses and see what they think of your ideas. It really doesn’t help the tech crowd that half of them are obsessed with union-busting pseudo-libertarian nonsense, in a country where these organizations still hold a lot of kingmaking power.

Australia’s tech industry just doesn’t have the leverage, either politically or financially, to pursue its agenda. I would flip what you said and turn it back on you, and the other commenters; it seems like all of you are applying American ways of looking at this to a country that has very different dynamics. Trying to import American-style “activism” to make your point isn’t going to get much done there, mate. What plays well on Twitter won’t work in Canberra.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#625

Post by mikeyjk »

RileyJames wrote: post #430
roody15 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

35 students out of 2,645 total. Tests are only conducted on exposed students (confirmed to be in close contact with positive case)or symptomatic students.

Students are not the only members of a community or geographic area. I’m unclear how this is a relevant comparison to “Covid in Australia” or “lockdown strategy” beyond ‘smaller numbers are smaller’ If you are going to compare the numbers you just provided (which are not a good direct comparison), then it shows that it’s considerably more out of control in your school than in NSW, which is the least contained outbrea…

Sometimes in Western Australia I forget covid is happening if I don't check the news. Brief, sweet moments. We haven't been in a lockdown longer than 3 days in quite some time.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#626

Post by bserge »

ipatec wrote: post #604
bserge wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You imagine some ragtag groups fighting against the police and military with the guns they bought a decade or two ago? Personal ownership of guns doesn't help that much. You need a lot of people, a lot of organized people. At which point you can acquire or even create the weapons you need.

Not really. Even an unorganized small group of armed people can create enough damage to the Police/Government forces that it's not worth the fight.

Perhaps in the past.

The sheer numbers and equipment of modern police and military forces are overwhelming. You need a lot of people, good organization, support from the inside.

Not to mention you'll be hit with the media first, discrediting all of your efforts and painting you as a terrorist or traitor in everyone's minds. Then you're easy pickings.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#627

Post by rainonmoon »

mdoms wrote: post #57
siquick wrote: post #37

I've lived in Australia for 10 years and really considering my familys future in this country. We are sleep-walking towards a very average future. An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will…

I lived in Australia for 5 years and my sense is that, as harsh as it sounds, Australia needs to go through an extreme hardship to wake up as a nation. Australia has lived true to its moniker as the Lucky Country - at least two full generations of Australians have never witnessed economic hardship or downturn of any kind. Natural disasters pass the nation by (other than wildfires). Even Covid looked like it was going…

In which 5 years did you live here? Some time in the 90s? We endured the GFC comparatively well thanks to shrewd economic leadership from the Labor government of the time but to say we haven't faced downturn in two generations is absurd. Speaking as someone who has been out of the office due to COVID since March 2020, I'm amazed you can say it seemed like it was going to pass us by "until recently". As for natural disasters passing us by "other than wildfires", those bushfires have killed hundreds of people, burned thousands of homes, killed over a billion animals, cost billions of dollars, and most victims of the most recent bushfire which scorched half the country still haven't received any relief. There are a lot of very misguided ideas about Australia in this thread, but the least someone driving by could do is spare us condescension.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#628

Post by kongin »

Nursie wrote: post #592
chitowneats wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantine for what? That's what you do with sick people. Whatever is going on in Australia has long ago left the realm of sane quarantine procedure. It will be 2022 soon, and the Australians are trying to prevent interstate spread of COVID-19. It's madness. Responding to your edit: still madness

Quarantine for coronavirus, in a pandemic that’s claimed millions of lives. You quarantine people (and animal) who might be sick, that’s the point of it. It doesn’t look like madness to me when you look at the comparative death rates.

> Quarantine for coronavirus, in a pandemic that’s claimed millions of lives.

So are we going to do a quarantine for the flu next? A pandemic that claims up to a 2 million lives a year globally:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_State...

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#629

Post by oblio »

parineum wrote: post #290
api wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hungry desperate people innovate. Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, Alan Turing, Albert Einstein, Robert Goddard, Werner von Braun, William Shockley, John von Neumann, ... those just come off the top of my head, I could keep going for pages. Yeah, a bunch of hungry desperate people there. I mean sure, some were deeply flawed or had tragic lives, but that wasn't from being hungry and desperate. They were not poor, and th…

Before their genius was recognized, how were the lives of those people?

Normal.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#630

Post by antattack »

adamjb wrote: post #425
fallous wrote: post #401

I've lived to see this kind of thing enacted in a good portion of the Anglosphere and my visceral reaction is to engage in a combination of civil disobedience and a determination to undermine every overstep made. With regards to things like the Aussie requirement for phone check-ins every 15 minutes or they will deploy police to follow up and confirm your location, turn off the phone and make them eat the cost of hav…

The phone check in thing is for enforcing the two weeks home quarantine for returned travelers and close contacts of confirmed cases. While there are certainly slippery slope arguments to be made, let's not act like we've already slid down it.

Can the quarantine be shortened with negative PCR test?
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