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Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

digitalrightswatch.org.au

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Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#611

Post by Nursie »

hwers wrote: post #594
Nursie wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say what I said on the other thread - If you want to present an argument against quarantine being needed or warranted, please go ahead. Checking in on the app is the least intrusive of the three options - quarantine under guard (usually in a hotel, like the one I'm in right now), quarantine at home with police visits tio ensure compliance, or quarantine at home checking in to the app once or twice a day. In this…

There's a ton of countries that just trusts its people to quarantine without the government checking on them.

Like the UK, where compliance has been estimated at around 40%?

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#612

Post by christophilus »

neither_color wrote: post #9

We can refer to both now as acts because — in what is an increasing trend in the Australian Parliament — the bills flew through both houses in a single day. Why is this an increasing trend? Voting is mandatory…so are voters more trusting of their institutions or just apathetic? Voting is compulsory at federal elections, by-elections and referendums for those on the electoral roll, as well as for State and Territory e…

Democracy fails if the majority is some combination of apathetic, uneducated, or incapable of critical thought. I don’t know about Australia, but the US is in serious trouble if that statement holds. We are a Republic, which probably buys us time. I’m amazed by how many voters I know personally who have never even read the US constitution or the bill of rights. It’s a real shame, and my guess is it won’t end well.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#613

Post by oblio »

digitalbase wrote: post #575
jezzzabell wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the alternative is thousands and thousands of deaths, most of us are willing to temporarily give up a bit of civil liberty.

temporarily...almost always those measures stay in place much longer

Based on what examples?

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#614

Post by christophilus »

rpmisms wrote: post #142
Swalden123 wrote: post #140

I don't know how we can stop this. Majority of Australians don't understand the implications of our constantly eroding rights because they are spoon fed bullshit by our media. When 95% of what you hear is cheering on the liberal party here, nothing can change.

The US has been well-served by our constitution. Sure, we still have issues, but it's a massive barrier to power-hungry bureaucrats.

I re-read a bunch of Ben Franklin this past year. It’s hard to overstate just how fortunate the US was to have foundation-builders who could think so clearly. After reading the founders, watching anything on CSPAN is just depressing.

Warren Buffett famously quipped that he looks for companies with a system that could be successfully helmed by a monkey, because eventually, a monkey will be at the helm. I think the founding fathers thought the same way, and attempted to set up such a system.

We’ll see how long it can last with monkeys at the helm.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#615

Post by rainonmoon »

fancy_hammer wrote: post #508
cletus wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm Australian but from the part no one ever visits (ie Perth). I say this because for most visitors Australia = Sydney, maybe Melbourne. Anyway, I've gone to live overseas a couple of times now. The most recent time was to the US 11 years ago. I'm still here. As many problems as the US has, the one big selling point it has is career opportunities and earning potential as a software engineer. Like... it doesn't ev…

> It's a shame because Perth and even Melbourne used to have a relatively low cost-of-living and high quality-of-life. I honestly don't know how anyone does it now. The experience of living in Melbourne in 2000 as someone not on the property ladder is very different to now. In 2000 it was possible to be on the poverty line and still live within an easy bike ride of the CBD. Now everyone I know lives increasingly on t…

I'm at the age where a lot of friends are beginning to buy (in Melbourne). There's basically two classes: the people buying houses in the outer-inner-suburbs that would still be vastly outside their price range without massive help from both sets of parents; these buyers are unfailingly couples. And second, single friends buying without parental assistance, but buying off the plan apartments not much closer to the city but which at least offer a deposit low enough for someone to get on the property ladder. One is taking on a lot more risk than the other to enter the market.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#616

Post by oblio »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #602
xvector wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is the foundation of the Second Amendment despite the intense opposition to it. The Second Amendment creates lines that even the government will be unwilling to cross.

And yet government agents shooting unsuspecting non-criminals in their own home, after mistaking the address or responding to a malicious fake emergency call, is a line that is only crossed in the country with the Second Amendment.

Yeah, plus they're practically the only country that hasn't had serious government threatening civil unrest for 160 years and they still brag about guns.

Heck, the only real recent unrest of that magnitude, the takeover of Capitol, was without guns as far as I remember. As in, no standoff.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#617

Post by kongin »

chitowneats wrote: post #580
Nursie wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say what I said on the other thread - If you want to present an argument against quarantine being needed or warranted, please go ahead. Checking in on the app is the least intrusive of the three options - quarantine under guard (usually in a hotel, like the one I'm in right now), quarantine at home with police visits tio ensure compliance, or quarantine at home checking in to the app once or twice a day. In this…

How did Australians become like this? In my imagination, my American ancestors were quite similar to yours. And yet...

It's a third of Australia that's gone insane. The rest have checked out and completely ignored it. It's like a long holiday where you get paid to pretend you work.

But you can't say that in polite company so you just have ~40 percent compliance with whatever insanity is going on now. Hilariously enough the compliance from police is lower than from the general population so basically we have politicians and the terminally online talking about masks, jabs and sign ins and the people who are supposed to enforce it not being bothered with it.

Standing in front of the super market something like one in three pull out their phone, unlock it, point it at the check in qr code and not log in.

I'm reminded of the latter days of the USSR where no one took anything the government said seriously and just did whatever they felt like. Which does not bode well for the current incarnation of Australia long term.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#618

Post by probably_wrong »

hwers wrote: post #594
Nursie wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll say what I said on the other thread - If you want to present an argument against quarantine being needed or warranted, please go ahead. Checking in on the app is the least intrusive of the three options - quarantine under guard (usually in a hotel, like the one I'm in right now), quarantine at home with police visits tio ensure compliance, or quarantine at home checking in to the app once or twice a day. In this…

There's a ton of countries that just trusts its people to quarantine without the government checking on them.

That's true. But it is also true that, in some of those countries, people fail to follow those rules. For a worst-case example, the Delta variant in Argentina was traced down to a man [1] who ignored the self-isolation rules and visited shopping malls and a restaurant.

I can be probably persuaded that some specific regions can do well with voluntary quarantine. But I'd rather trust the local authorities to know what the best approach for their people is.

[1] https://en.mercopress.com/2021/08/23/case-zero-of-delta-vari...

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#619

Post by kongin »

jezzzabell wrote: post #551
slowmotiony wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The phone check in thing is for enforcing the two weeks home quarantine for returned travelers and close contacts of confirmed cases. So the government can effectively just inprison you in your own house, with no proof, no recourse and no due process, because they suspect you were near some guy at some particular time some days ago. They don't even ask to get tested first! How can people on hacker news of all place…

When the alternative is thousands and thousands of deaths, most of us are willing to temporarily give up a bit of civil liberty.

> When the alternative is thousands and thousands of deaths, most of us are willing to temporarily give up a bit of civil liberty.

Don't worry, you'll be doing both and it won't be temporary.

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