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Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

digitalrightswatch.org.au

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Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#471

Post by jcims »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #445
jakequade wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have punitive anti-drinking policy, and a racial group susceptible to that problem, it becomes a racist policy. There's alternatives that don't set people with problems back even further.

> If you have punitive anti-drinking policy, and a racial group susceptible to that problem, it becomes a racist policy. No it doesn't. A law does not become racist when one race disproportionately breaks it, otherwise every law everywhere would be racist.

>No it doesn't. A law does not become racist when one race disproportionately breaks it, otherwise every law everywhere would be racist.

I think you'll find there are quite a few folks that disagree with you on this point, some feel that laws can be considered racist exclusively because of disproportionate impact on specific communities.

Personally I think it just boils down to how people define the term 'racist'. When I was growing up (many moons ago), the term was used primarily to describe intent, but now it has expanded to include outcomes.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#472

Post by Palmik »

tikwidd wrote: post #431
fallous wrote: post #401

I've lived to see this kind of thing enacted in a good portion of the Anglosphere and my visceral reaction is to engage in a combination of civil disobedience and a determination to undermine every overstep made. With regards to things like the Aussie requirement for phone check-ins every 15 minutes or they will deploy police to follow up and confirm your location, turn off the phone and make them eat the cost of hav…

You seem to be referring to the South Australia Home Quarantine app [1]. There has been a lot of misinformation circulating about this app recently. I'd just like to clear up some things: The app only applies to people that need to quarantine, not the general population. The app allows people who are required to isolate to opt to do their isolation at home, rather than stay at a quarantine facility. Nobody is being f…

Even if it's "just" for 2 weeks of quarantine, being able to check-in within 15 minutes seems unreasonable. What about taking a nap, taking a bath, cooking, etc.?

Many other countries trust their citizens enough that such draconian measures weren't required even at the height of the pandemic. Not to mention now.

I'd be curious how violations to check-in are handled in practice.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#473

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

alliao wrote: post #207

CCP is literally cancer on all citizens living in currently free democracy. They show that it's possible to keep a huge population under control with current tools and technology. Our politicians show public disdain, but fuck are they being seduced. And Australia is just stepping into it step by step while asking it's citizens to trust the government because they seem to be at odds with CCP publicly. As someone who l…

You can always find a reason for this, alternatively in the US you could thank Osamma bin Laden, because the patriot act with it's Section 215 was legislated as a result of 9/11.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#474

Post by slavik81 »

yesenadam wrote: post #406
Aerroon wrote: post #225

I'm always kind of surprised by people who move to Australia. It's a country that has had an active policy of censorship on entertainment for a very long time - books, video games, movies. The fact that the populace is okay with such a policy would make me reconsider moving there. I've also read some really questionable things about policies regarding aboriginals in the northern territories. In 2007 the government 't…

> I'm always kind of surprised by people who move to Australia. It's a country that has had an active policy of censorship on entertainment for a very long time - books, video games, movies. The fact that the populace is okay with such a policy would make me reconsider moving there. That seems very bizarre to me. I'm not sure what you're talking about here exactly, what you've heard/read. Compared to which countries?…

Age ratings in Australia are legally mandated, but the rating agency regularly refuses classification to video games. Until 2013, it was illegal to publish a video game unsuitable for 15-year-olds. The introduction of R18 for video games was a step forward, but it seems to be backsliding again. In 2019, Hotline Miami was prohibited from being re-released.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_video_games_in_...

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#475

Post by logicchains »

worik wrote: post #464
logicchains wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If other people aren't afraid of the virus, you have no right to stop them; it's their choice. Now maybe you could argue you have a right to keep them out of your house, or your personal space, if you don't want to be infected, but you have absolutely no right to stop them meeting on the street far from you.

You do so have a right to take measures for public health, which may well involve arresting people who ignore the necessary measures. In a pandemic there is no "street far from you". We are in thios together

> You do so have a right to take measures for public health, which may well involve arresting people who ignore the necessary measures.

Do you even understand what a right means? Rights, be it as defined by the US constitution or the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, are inherent moral rights, it's not something the government can freely suspend based on some arbitrary utilitarian justification like case numbers. The whole point of those declarations of rights is protecting people from authoritarian governments; if the government has the power to suspend those rights, you have no rights!

Tell me in which declaration of rights is there a right to have armed police attack and lock up people peacefully assembling on the street?

And if you don't believe in rights, believe anything is moral as long as an elected government makes it law, then consider this. Would you still feel that way if the democratically elected government decided it was okay to rape worik's wife/daughter/mother? Would you still feel that way if the democratically elected government decided worik's ethnic group should be sent to gas chambers for cleansing? If not, then clearly you do believe in absolute rights.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#476

Post by eru »

siquick wrote: post #37

I've lived in Australia for 10 years and really considering my familys future in this country. We are sleep-walking towards a very average future. An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will…

Out of all the things you mention, privatizing government owned assets it actually a good thing.

Or at least it can be a good thing, as long as the process ain't mismanaged too badly. Governments seldom do the simplest thing of just auctioning off eg a state-owned business or plot of land to the highest bidder.

Most of the time they insists on beauty contests where politicians want to judge bidders' plans. That's a recipe for corruption and cronyism.

Or they only sell off eg a business piecemeal, making a turnaround in private hands much harder.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#477

Post by gsk22 »

pessimizer wrote: post #352
cletus wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, for the record, I 100% support gay marriage and abortion rights. What you have to realize about the US is that the Supreme Court deciding these issues is... controversial. Many view it as undemocratic (although it's worth noting that many of those same people don't feel the same way about the Supreme Court's pro-2nd Amendment interpretations of modern times). We're still seeing the ripple effects of Roe v. Wade b…

American liberals have a bizarre authoritarian idea of how governance/power works because they were spoiled for the Warren court for so long. They think of government as a tree of daddies and mommies of increasing wisdom and credentials with SCOTUS at the root, to gift you civil rights if you're pure of heart and can just word your petition correctly. They've completely given up on getting buy-in from the ignorant, d…

Surely you could have mode your point ("Changes made by pure fiat don't last") without the diatribe overgeneralizing and insulting a large percentage of the American population?

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#478

Post by eru »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #383
Nursie wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ban on alcohol in some communities is (AFAICT) welcomed by those communities, which have massive problems with it. There are laws in other states which allow people to declare their house a “dry place” which is then enforceable by law, to try to stop anyone from bringing alcohol into the house. I can’t tell you whether any of these measures work, but they aren’t implemented for reasons of racist suppression, from…

So your points arethat “some people like authoritarian measures” and “the censorship isn’t bad because today you can get around it”. Sounds like you have a vested interest in not realizing what these new laws mean for you.

> So your points arethat “some people like authoritarian measures” and [...]

Well, that's how democracy is supposed to work, ain't it?

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#479

Post by eru »

Barrin92 wrote: post #333
Aerroon wrote: post #225

I'm always kind of surprised by people who move to Australia. It's a country that has had an active policy of censorship on entertainment for a very long time - books, video games, movies. The fact that the populace is okay with such a policy would make me reconsider moving there. I've also read some really questionable things about policies regarding aboriginals in the northern territories. In 2007 the government 't…

>that the populace is okay with such a policy would make me reconsider moving there When I had to decide for a job relocation whether I should move to the UK or to the US I had many issues in mind, wages, safety, public transport, childcare, culture but I'm gonna be honest 'censorship in videogames' wasn't very high on the list. Not to mention that the discourse in regards to Australia seems incredibly hyperbolic in…

Well, I wouldn't mention Singapore in the same sentence as China here. But I see your point.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#480

Post by eru »

Nursie wrote: post #465
cletus wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm Australian but from the part no one ever visits (ie Perth). I say this because for most visitors Australia = Sydney, maybe Melbourne. Anyway, I've gone to live overseas a couple of times now. The most recent time was to the US 11 years ago. I'm still here. As many problems as the US has, the one big selling point it has is career opportunities and earning potential as a software engineer. Like... it doesn't ev…

> It's a shame because Perth and even Melbourne used to have a relatively low cost-of-living and high quality-of-life. I'm British and have just moved to Perth. I am looking at being able to get a house 2-3 times as large here compared to the UK, for similar outlay. Add to that the weather and the sheer space... the QoL here seems so much higher than back home. I have spent time in some parts of the US (about 4 month…

Australia by and large is also much less grubby than the UK.

(I say, 'grubby' not 'dirty', because I don't know whether the UK is actually dirty. Eg all the buildings just look dirty and drab compared to Australia. Perhaps it's a leftover from centuries of burning lots of coal?)

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