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The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

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Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. >…the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, st…

What I've come to realize is this asks far too much of the average person. Ideas do not win on their logical merits. Rationality is not the driving force of opinion for the majority of people. The alternative is probably worse, as some sort of totalitarian regime, but I just don't think billions of humans are capable of ensuring their own survival as a species

A billion minds are better than one.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no general opinion about Odysee/LBRY, except that I expect it to fair as well as every other blockchain buzzword bingo social thing and every other YouTube compete, which is to say, I expect it to never gain traction in any sizable way (I would certainly never choose it as a way to build my video audience), but if the argument against Odysee is that it is too permissive of what content it allows (and the line…

> if the worst thing you can say about it is that a guy that refuses to say “damn” or “shit” or “fuck,” is morally offended by some of the legal content But that's not what I described. Its not the content Lunduke had an issue with, it was the marketting decision to promote it with an exclusive spotlight, and then the following unprofessional communications revealing something really dodgy about the company. Conversa…

Yeah, it's not a great look.

I'm plenty fine with content I'm not a fan of being on a platform, but it's pretty abhorrent to be promoting it from official channels.

What he's referencing, not work appropriate: https://odysee.com/@Odysee:8/axxl-on-odysee:c

Their marketing strategy seems to miss the mark and if the company can't understand that it's a huge mistake which will probably not get better.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a red state and my experience is the opposite. I suspect it might be that when your view is the majority in your area, you're more inclined to shut out opposing ideas as "fringe". It's the "I don't know anyone who voted ___" effect.

I definitely know more democrats than republicans (my area votes 80% democrat). But they are highly educated people (think U Chicago, Georgia Tech etc.) still believing every opinion their favorite news outlet sells them. I find that disturbing. Not the fact that they believe most of the party lines, but believing and defending ALL of them, like the party can do no wrong.

That is exactly my experience of most Republicans in a red state. Every Trump talking point, every coronavirus conspiracy, it all gets eaten up. There are exceptions, to be sure, but a surprising number of otherwise thoughtful people accept it all unthinkingly.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My read of Popper was that we should be prepared to even use force against intolerant people who are not willing to engage in rational debate. What Popper didn't anticipate is that the square of public opinion would become the internet, and a big question this creates is if the internet is a place where rationale debate and proportional representation of ideas is possible or not. If the internet were to make the publ…

To me it seems he’s clearly saying that if they decide to use force then we should be prepared to respond in kind not that we should use force to suppress irrational argument. The end of the first sentence maps to the end of the second.

How I interpret it is not that we should use force to suppress irrational argument, but that if we are failing to counter intolerance with rationale argument in the public opinion, than we should be prepared to do even more to counter it, maybe even to use force. And then he lists examples of what he'd consider cases where more than just countering with rationale argument would be justified, and those are: denounce all arguments, not willing to discuss at a rationale level, not willing to listen, believing they are being deceived, using pistols and fists.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but how do you reconcile that with the fact that hate speech and propaganda has been a part of almost all atrocities ever done in the past? Or put some other way, how do you reconcile that your freedom can be affected by someone's else's freedom? Like what if I use my freedom to turn others against you and have them hate you and berate you and bully you and ridicule you and refute you, and potentially have them…

Bad example considering censorship is also a tool of murderous and totalitarian regimes.

Always in tandem with propaganda I feel. So it would censor criticism of the regime, and any opposite viewpoint, while replacing all voices with the pro-regime voices instead.

I'm not sure this is the same as letting one freely voice their hate of another and propagate lies and falsehoods about them.

I guess you see it as let's just all use propaganda and defamation against each other, and hopefully that evens out where we all meet in the middle through constant bi-directional propaganda and hatred.

But I see it more as let's not allow the use of propaganda and hate anymore, because those things are at the detriment of other people's freedom, and you should only be free to do what doesn't take away freedoms from others as well, unless it has been agreed between both parties through a contract and a system of laws.

I don't really have a proof that one would have better outcomes over the other, but personally I find having a civil debate in good faith with rational arguments is more pleasant than to have a demagogue debate in bad faith using appeal to prejudice, emotions, desires, falsehoods and defamation. So I'd rather we as a society needed to engage respectfully, rationally and in good faith, and I wouldn't mind this to be enforced both culturally and by law.

I've heard the "slippery slope" and the "what if that just radicalizes demagogues even more" arguments, and the latter one I find more possibly valid. I feel the slope isn't that slippery personally, like the slope would only slip if the person in power was again a demagogue ruling in bad faith, and at that point it be too late anyways, since they'd already be in power.

Now the argument that it could radicalize demagogues further, by giving them more ammo to justify themselves, I think that's a more plausible prediction. I'm not too sure about this bit yet, so I could be convinced here, but I'd need to also be convinced that letting demagogues continue to have large public reach isn't itself a bigger threat.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#406
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m split between two causes myself. 1) The utter lack of support from monied interests. 2) The fact that leftists love nothing more than fighting slightly different types of other leftists.

"I like to tell myself" isn't a strong indication of something that I actually believe. So, here goes 3) the radical left is a bogeyman and the reason you don't see many of them is that they're exceptionally rare. 4) radical leftists have better opsec after generations of actual persecution and censorship, and don't do youtube 5) I think tiktok is more popular with the left?

In my country we still have a old school communist party, and despite their radical ideas like saying north Korea is a democracy or support maduro in Venezuela, when you hear their political campaign is all about raising minimum wage and a restricted House market. In the other way, when we look at the far right party, it's all about how the immigrants are eating tax money or defending a small government with a total control for one leader.

So it's not that radical left doesn't exist, it's just that they drop their guns and what's left it's not that loud.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#407
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I like to tell myself" isn't a strong indication of something that I actually believe. So, here goes 3) the radical left is a bogeyman and the reason you don't see many of them is that they're exceptionally rare. 4) radical leftists have better opsec after generations of actual persecution and censorship, and don't do youtube 5) I think tiktok is more popular with the left?

In my country we still have a old school communist party, and despite their radical ideas like saying north Korea is a democracy or support maduro in Venezuela, when you hear their political campaign is all about raising minimum wage and a restricted House market. In the other way, when we look at the far right party, it's all about how the immigrants are eating tax money or defending a small government with a total…

My apologies, that was written from a purely anglocentric perspective.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation you just described does not match YouTube's value being in that it "provides content curation". The situation you described involves you doing the curation, and YouTube acting as a glorified RSS reader. If you can subscribe to channels on YouTube and be satisfied with that content (and not from e.g. YouTube's recommendations for stuff you don't subscribe to), then you can do those same things whether th…

Is that something an average teen with an iPhone can do, or wants to do? And apart from the subscription feed, there's recommendations based on the videos you already watched. If creators were distributed across different platforms, this wouldn't work.

Could do? Yes, it's as easy as adding a contact to your phone. Wants to do? I'm sure some do and some don't, but I'd argue that there's conditioning involved there by these services so that is irrelevant.

I can think of a simple engineering solution to the problem of recommendations, an open API standard to fetch them should a user want that functionality. So it could work, but the hosts don't want it to work.

But that aside, just because a service makes recommendations doesn't mean the recommendation engine is more useful than randomly finding things or getting sent things by friends. I'd argue that YouTube recommendations, at least in their current iteration, are less useful to users than their friend sending them a video they were subscribed to, following random twitter accounts that share content they enjoy, or even a chronological list of uploads sorted with content tags. You're placing a lot of value on something that frankly is a raging dumpster fire of hot garbage.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look up where he wrote about this paradox of tolerance? It was in a footnote . (To guard, I'd guess, against people deliberately misinterpreting his words in the main text and going "Ha, look at this doctrinaire free-speech absolutist." I've read the book that was in.)

Why does where it was written matter? Saying that it being written in the footnotes invalidates the argument is the logical fallacy of poisoning the well. You would actually need to refute the argument directly for your assertion to have any weight to it.

What I'm saying is:

- People make a big deal about renowned philosopher Karl Popper warning us of the danger and incoherence of tolerance towards free speech. I think this misuses his rep.

- The one-paragraph quote on the Wikipedia page linked above was Popper's full writing on this. You don't need to look further for it.

Others were already addressing the object-level arguments.

Re: The Linux Experiments YouTube channel has been terminated

#410
post #29

The Linux Experiment is probably my favourite linux-focussed YouTube channel. Nick has been doing absolutely fantastic work and his channel being permanently deleted would be an absolute travesty and a clear mistake. He is producing high quality, thoughtful, inoffensive content. Here's to hoping the channel is rightly reinstated ASAP, along with an apology and explanation from Google. Also, if you don't know the chan…

What is Odysee? I'm intrigued because at first glance it seems to be better than YouTube in almost every way possible. Page loads are quick, if you turn off AutoPlay it actually stays off, the controls are actually usable on an iPad etc.

Out of all the alt-tech, Odysee has been my favourite. Their UI is quite nice and they also have a wide variety of content.
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