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Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

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Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#601

Post by istingray »

istingray wrote: post #77

Disclaimer: Paying Protonmail customer Their homepage says "By default, we do not keep any IP logs" In 2021, any soft language like this should be a red flag for anyone who is against surveillance. Maybe in 2018 it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. Come on, Protonmail, you're supposed to be leading the way -- don't make me figure it out myself. Replace immediately with "By default we don't log IP, but may be req…

24 hours later, ProtonMail deletes "By default, we do not keep any IP logs".

I'll call that a win for all customers who emailed Protonmail about this.

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28443449

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#602

Post by sellyme »

sodality2 wrote: post #520
sellyme wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the word "scan" here, so hopefully this abstraction will be useful. Imagine you have a message written on a piece of paper. You intentionally show this message to two people, Alice and Bob, and are fully aware that they have both read and can perfectly remember the entire contents of the message. Now imagine that Alice thought about the message independently (not recalli…

The act of analyzing my data is what is the violation. The act of telling me is simply revealing that violation. This is why, when the US intelligence agencies were scanning and analyzing everyone in America's cell phone history and social graph, without interaction or active intervention , it was a privacy violation even when it wasn't being used. It doesn't matter who sees it. The fact that it is being scanned and…

> The act of analyzing my data is what is the violation.

So to be 100% clear on this: if you tell someone information, and they think about that information, that's a violation of your privacy?

I've definitely always assumed that the right to think about information is intrinsically coupled with the right to know about that information. I wouldn't give someone data that I didn't want them to think about.

> for possible future use and abuse

This is a completely reasonable concern to hold, but surely "they could possibly do something bad later" applies to every email provider in existence.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#603

Post by istingray »

bitL wrote: post #552
istingray wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the Protonmail customers out there, what did you do about this? For starters, I emailed Protonmail support. Here's mine: Hi, Your homepage reads "By default, we do not keep any IP logs..." This language is soft and misleading. Maybe in 2018 when I first began using ProtonMail it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. I expect better from ProtonMail. Replace immediately with something clearer. "By default we don't…

That's fine in my "paying ProtonMail customer" view. Use VPN + Tor if you don't want your IP address be known. I use ProtonMail to reduce my exposure to Google tracking/possibility of business execution leaks they might use in their favor and keep alternatives alive.

So does any non-Google email provider meet your criteria then?

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#604

Post by hythyt »

darkwater wrote: post #555
ArnoVW wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I gathered from a (French) blog posting by a squatting collective, posted elsewhere in this thread, the arrests are in relation to an eviction. The eviction was legally sanctioned, and violence was used on the officers. Several officers had to stop work for a few days, one officer for two weeks. I myself am a middle-aged "have" , but I do worry about climate and I do empathize with those that "have not". Ho…

(prepare the downvotes) > The eviction was legally sanctioned, and violence was used on the officers. Several officers had to stop work for a few days, one officer for two weeks. Usually they need to stop work for a few days because their hands/wrists are aching due to hitting too hard on protestors. Anti-riot are perfectly equipped and physically trained to be in fights, it's literally their job. And while there are…

+1

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#605

Post by [deleted] »

sodality2 wrote: post #337
istingray wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great point. This should be better publicized. Protonmail requires a phone number to register through Tor.

This is completely false. I have created accounts (for others) over tor, without ever divulging a number. The exit node is a factor here. Sometimes email is required; if the need is there, throwaway emails work. I hate to tragedy-of-the-commons a good service, though, which is why I have a subscription.

[deleted]

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#606

Post by istingray »

TylerLives wrote: post #525
sodality2 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely false. I have created accounts (for others) over tor, without ever divulging a number. The exit node is a factor here. Sometimes email is required; if the need is there, throwaway emails work. I hate to tragedy-of-the-commons a good service, though, which is why I have a subscription.

Can you do it now?

Protonmail required me to enter a phone number to create an account.

I just did it yesterday. The text from them says "Your Proton verification code is: ######"

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#608

Post by sodality2 »

sellyme wrote: post #602
sodality2 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The act of analyzing my data is what is the violation. The act of telling me is simply revealing that violation. This is why, when the US intelligence agencies were scanning and analyzing everyone in America's cell phone history and social graph, without interaction or active intervention , it was a privacy violation even when it wasn't being used. It doesn't matter who sees it. The fact that it is being scanned and…

> The act of analyzing my data is what is the violation. So to be 100% clear on this: if you tell someone information, and they think about that information, that's a violation of your privacy? I've definitely always assumed that the right to think about information is intrinsically coupled with the right to know about that information. I wouldn't give someone data that I didn't want them to think about. > for possib…

>So to be 100% clear on this: if you tell someone information, and they think about that information, that's a violation of your privacy?

If your phone began analyzing your local photos for child porn, you'd probably be upset, no?

>This is a completely reasonable concern to hold, but surely "they could possibly do something bad later" applies to every email provider in existence.

True, but google is CURRENTLY abusing it by selling ads to me based on it.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#609

Post by dfdub10 »

ksaj wrote: post #317
penagwin wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding it depends on how naughty your current exit node has been. Most tor exits in my experience allow creation and you just need to verify another email (just use a random burner- they only block a few. Supposedly some well behaved exits require just a captcha but I've never seen it.

It would be nice if they had a tor presence so there would be no need to traverse an exit node. A lot of other privacy-forward sites do exactly this.

They do with the premium tier.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#610

Post by zaarn »

globular-toast wrote: post #563
zaarn wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PM mails are encrypted with PGP at rest, as is metadata. The police can request to log incoming and outgoing mail metadata if available but not retroactively.

Right, if you trust that they only store the encrypted version. But the comment at the top of the thread is talking about logging once the police are interested in you. At that point they can log anything you send to them (or somebody else sends to them), including plaintext emails.

Yes, but it's hardly surprising that criminal investigations tend to evaporate some privacy standards very quickly. ProtonMail doesn't want to get hit by the stick too.

And before anyone suggests that PM should have been more "open/honest" about this, I disagree, the fact that a criminal investigation will do this is well known and mentioning it would be akin to asking your bank to plaster "if the world economy implodes, we might not be able to pay out your account" all over their frontpages.

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