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Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

theguardian.com

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Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#111

Post by fennecfoxen »

drocer88 wrote: post #44
NortySpock wrote: post #34

Happened in Florida in 2020 as well... https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/12/02/the-name-is-the-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/20/florida-ele... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

John F. Kennedy used this trick: https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-... Note the two "Joseph Russo" entries on the ballot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_John_F._K...

Barack Obama won his first election using a different procedural trick — he looked up his three opponents' ballot petitions, and challenged enough of the signatures on the petitions that they were all delisted.

Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#112

Post by patentatt »

gpm wrote: post #68
a-priori wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, this probably didn't actually change the results, but it likely narrowed the margin in an already narrow vote.

You and I have very different understandings of the word narrow. That's 58% vs 42% just counting the votes that went to the PPC/Conservatives. 39% vs 28% looking at all the votes in the riding. The rhino candidate got less than 2% of the votes in the riding. It definitely didn't actually change the results.

Is it possible that such a move may dissuade voters from even showing up to the polls to participate in an election that they view as a sham, or as being made a circus? It certainly doesn’t build trust in democracy.

Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#113

Post by ccleve »

cguess wrote: post #96
ccleve wrote: post #38

A friend of mine (and my successor as chairman of the Chicago Republican Party) filed a case in the U.S. Supreme Court this week over the same tactic right here in Chicago. https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-michael-madigan-c... If we win this thing, then filing sham candidates will become illegal in the U.S. It's an utterly corrupt practice.

Why are Republicans suing over a Democratic primary? I'm doubting good faith. Also this seems to be civil case, not a criminal one, so I'm not sure how it'd make anything illegal?

"Illegal" means contrary to the law. Plenty of things that are illegal but carry no criminal penalties.

As a practical matter, the court would rule that sham candidates are impermissible, and then their opponents would have an opportunity to remove them from the ballot via a civil lawsuit, or seek sanctions again whoever put them up, or collect civil damages, or in an extreme case overturn an election altogether.

Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#115

Post by WhompingWindows »

This example is extremely egregious - can anyone fact check on those identical names and very similar pictures? Other commenters have posted American examples as well, which while blatant are not nearly as egregious as the Russian example. Just goes to show, true democracy is hard to enact.

Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#116

Post by lrem »

sct202 wrote: post #48
ccleve wrote: post #38

A friend of mine (and my successor as chairman of the Chicago Republican Party) filed a case in the U.S. Supreme Court this week over the same tactic right here in Chicago. https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-michael-madigan-c... If we win this thing, then filing sham candidates will become illegal in the U.S. It's an utterly corrupt practice.

Not this particular case but just to give context on why padding the primary with sham candidates of the same ethnic group is an issue, but also in Chicago it has happened that people change their names to imply certain ethnic/heritage/characteristics like Phillip Spiwak (R) became Shannon P. O’Malley (D) to win an elected judge position in 2018 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-judge-candidat...

There was a movie about a person searching their Irish ancestors. Ended with the protagonist confronting their father, who admitted they made it up to win votes. The movie must be decades old now.

Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#117

Post by gpm »

patentatt wrote: post #112
gpm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I have very different understandings of the word narrow. That's 58% vs 42% just counting the votes that went to the PPC/Conservatives. 39% vs 28% looking at all the votes in the riding. The rhino candidate got less than 2% of the votes in the riding. It definitely didn't actually change the results.

Is it possible that such a move may dissuade voters from even showing up to the polls to participate in an election that they view as a sham, or as being made a circus? It certainly doesn’t build trust in democracy.

In general I'm sure that's a possibility, and it probably occurs in the Russian case. In Canada we are quite confident in our electoral system, and this sort of shenanigans doesn't change that (or result in substantial confusion, since we clearly spell out candidates political parties - indeed I suspect most people vote based on party more than based on candidate name). I don't believe for an instant that this had a substantial effect on the PPCs voter turnout.

Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#118

Post by EgorKolds »

gfaure wrote: post #66
nomoreplease wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Florida case it was/is a common surname, not a full name. In this Russian case, two humans changed their full name to match. Presumably paid to do so. Very different situations Edit: in the Russian case, they also changed their appearance to match According to a sibling comment, this strategy goes back to JohnF Kennedy at least. Except that the Russians take it to the next level

In the Russia case, not their full name -- notice that the patronymic is different for each of the real candidate and the two fake candidates.

It's actually good for them by the way. Since in case of the complete full match they would have needed to specify their original names before the change.

Re: Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

#120

Post by dzdt »

NortySpock wrote: post #34

Happened in Florida in 2020 as well... https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/12/02/the-name-is-the-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/20/florida-ele... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

The third of those links is the most important: in the Florida case the spoiler candidate and the man paying him to run were charged with a crime. This doesn't reverse the election, whose outcome was almost certainly changed by the scheme, but it might deter others from following this playbook.
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